Find Ancestors

Meg, got my notes out and found out why I thought Lettice was a Pointon, it seems she may have been married twice once to Benjamin and once to a James Bailey and that Pointon was her single name.

What are your thoughts and other than finding out where she and Ben were married and visiting the church to verify this can you think of another way of knowing if they were married.

And if she were married to Jame first whats the chances that some of her children could be his.

Pauline

Not sure now, I think I must have seen someones tree, its the very thing you warned about

Why Pointon?

Thanks Meg I wait to see if they will contact me and let you know what happens.
Lettice, I thought she was a Pointon, perhaps I was wrong.

Pauline

I can't think of much else you can prove. There are no extracted baptisms on Family Search. There's a submitted marriage of Benjamin to Lettice Bailey (another Bailey!) at Horton, 10 Dec 1825

I wish we could find him in 1851 - there is a James age 11 born Horton living with mother Jane - and a bloomin lodger Hannah Bailey (again!), in Macclesfield, but they are also there in 1841. I'm a bit bothered by that family, might take a closer look.

I contacted one of the two tree owners on Ancestry (the one that looked the best!).

Hi Meg, sorry about not giving much info I was just rushing off to work.
I have certificates in front of me right now one is Williams birth cert it says:

Date of Birth: 7th May 1866
Name and Surname of Father: James Simcock
Name and Surname of Mother: Harriet Simcock formally Hancock
Occupation of Father: Coal Miner
Signature,description and residence of informant: X, mark of Harriet Simcock mother Brown Edge (looks like) Norton
When registered: 29th May.

I then went on to get James and Harriets marriage cert and that says
When Married: 26th August 1861
Name and Surnames: James Simcock, Rank or Profession: Miner
Harriet Hancock Both are age 23
Condition: Bachelor
Spinster
The Residence at the time of Marriage: Horton
Fathers Name and Surname: Benjamin Simcock, Laborer
Enoch Hancock,Miner
Witnesses: Henry Simcock
Hannah (looks like) Mumford, (she made an X) presumably she couldn't write.

So what do you think, is there enough info to say that Benjamin is Jame's father. I think, you may be right that his mother is Lettice.

If all this proves to be correct I would like to get in touch with the person on Ancestry if you think this could be of help(I trust your judgment)

Many thanks
Pauline

Hi Meg, just wanted to let you know I have just read your post but I am just off to work(couldn't resist a quick look) so I will send a better reply to night when I get home.

Magic to see you

Pauline

So, is this Benjamin and son James in 1861:

1861 England Census
about Benjamin Simcock Name: Benjamin Simcock
Age: 58
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1803
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Lettina Simcock
Gender: Male
Where born: Horton, Staffordshire, England

Civil parish: Horton
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Leek
Sub-registration district: Leek
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 98
Household Members: Name Age
Benjamin Simcock 58 Labourer
Lettina Simcock 60 (Could be Letitia)
James Simcock 23 Labourer
Henry Simcock 20
Hannah Simcock 35
Ann Simcock 9 G/Daughter
Caroline Simcock 5 G/Daughter

There's a tree on Ancestry with this family. Lettina is Lettice Bailey according to that.

1851 England Census
about Beniamin Simcock Name: Beniamin Simcock
Age: 51
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1800
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Lettice Simcock
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Norton, Staffordshire, England

Civil parish: Horton
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Leek
Sub-registration district: Norton
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 6
Household Members: Name Age
Beniamin Simcock 51
Lettice Simcock 51
Hannah Simcock 24
Enoch Simcock 19
Henry Simcock 8

No James on that.

1841 England Census
about Benjamin Simcock Name: Benjamin Simcock
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1801
Gender: Male
Where born: Staffordshire, England

Civil parish: Horton
Hundred: North Totmonslow
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Leek
Sub-registration district: Leek
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Benjamin Simcock 40
Lether Simcock 40 (definitely says Lettice)
John Simcock 13
Hugh Simcock 7
James Simcock 2
Harriot Simcock 9

These are from the tree on Ancestry. Do you have an Ancestry subscription? If not, would you like me to contact this person on your behalf, to make contact?

Seems a likely match.

The tree has James Simcock marrying Harriet Hancock. There are parents for Benjamin Simcock.

JUst be careful in accepting another person's research, however attractive it might seem. This person has posted no sources for their research, so you need to confirm what they have got. But it could be a good starting point.

Best of luck

Meg

Hi, and welcome back Pauline.

What have you done with the other post? Is there any information on it that we need to have on here? If so, please let us have it.

So you got the marriage cert of James Simcock and Harriett Hancock in 1861.

James's father was Benjamin. What was his occupation. Who was Harriet's father and his occupation? What was the occupation of James? And who were the witnesses on the marriage cer?

We need all that info please.

Meg

Ladies I recently put this post on in another topic,I'm sorry I did just what you good people have asked not to be done, my apologies.

Hi I wonder if anyone could help, after having wonderful success in finding a parent of James Simcock (all due to the helpfulness of lovely people on here) I wonder if anyone could find his parents marriage.
I have looked on Staffordshire BMD but fear that Benjamin's marriage was before those records began.
I recently obtained Jame's marriage certificate which stated that Benjamin was his father, and through another member on here, his mother was possibly Lettuce(not sure that's how its spelt) or Louisa.
On Jame's marriage certificate it states that the place of residence at the time of marriage is Horton so I am assuming that this would be where Benjamin and his wife (Lettuce/Louisa?) would be living.
_________________________________________________________
in one of the above posts I put that I wasn't sure if Benjamin was Jame's father, he is, I got Jame and Harriets marriage cert and Benjamin is on there and is a laborer.
So now I'm trying to verify who was Benjamin s wife, not so much with her christian name but her surname as it appears she may have been married twice and from that first marriage had some children!!!!.

Once again sorry for being a pain
Pauline

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Pauline, from where have you got James's brothers as being Joseph and Frederick? I cannot find such a family.

You need the marriage certificate of James and Harriett to determine his father, in order to find the family before he married.

James says he is born in Horton, but I cannot find a suitable James in 1841, 1851 or 1861.

Hi I wonder if you could help, you really helped me with a previous inquiry.
Madmeg(how I hate calling you that lol) and MaureenNY you found that it was James and Hariette, SueC I feel a bit of a twit cos I said that I didd'nt think that James and Hariette were the ones but you proved me, yes you've got it, a twit lol
You found James 1836 - 1890 and Hariette Simcock and their children but now I'm in a quandary with regards to James 1836 - 1890, and his brothers Joseph and Frederick.
I have done what you suggested, cross referenced, got certs and stuff but I still am not sure if its right after receiving a mail
I have Williams birth certificate and on it it states that James and Hariette are his parents so I know that James and Hariette are right but its James (Williams father) brothers, Joseph and Frederick that I am now not certain of, please can anyone help me.
Pauline

Big smile for you.Pauline!!!!

Maureen

Wow, how nice to know we got it right, and you have found a real live relative.

Much luck with future research.

A job well done, I think.

Hi just wanted to tell everyone, you were correct in finding that it was James and Harriet and not Emily.
This morning I went to pick up Williams birth cert and on it it say Harriet..........so a big big thank you to you all.
And just to say I went onto another site,Leekonline, and found a lady who was researching the Simcock/Hancock line and it turns out she's part of my tree and visa versa, her mum remembers my grandfather(this lady is in her nineties and sound in mind) she also thought he had a brother Frederick(no prompting from me) and a few other things that she said were right, initially I never give away to much info because I have been duped before so with not much info this lady gave me true info and so I am ready and willing to swap what info I have.
Once again thank you all so much

If our family were still there in the 1930s there will be a local historian who remembers the farm. Contact the local council. The will know who that person is.

Thanks so much Margaret you've been a god send in this mystery I cant thank you enough.
I will do as you've suggested and see if any of the locals can recall a Waterfall farm, there's a web site I think its called Brown Edge online, either way I'll find it, I'll put a request about the farm on there, also, there's a local historian here were I live I'll ask him he works in the local library and I just thought they'll have maps and stuff wont they I could look at them.
Once again Margaret thank you so much.......oh and before I forget I'll let you know about Williams certificate

Hey, look at this:

http://www.wishful-thinking.org.uk/genuki/STS/Endon/MIs.html

It's got all your Simcocks buried in St Luke's churchyard.

Wow, Pauline, you have seen things in me I never knew existed!

Thank you.

EDIT - Patient is something I have never been, I think you probably meant "persistent".

Well, back to your thread now that my head has come back to its normal size (which, incidentally, is very small) :-)