Find Ancestors

Hi
Just back from work only here for a while
Yes jk4 is possible john kelly born in 1864
i am so sorry this is like this.
(it get worse My husband is also James john kelly 1964and so is my son james john kelly 1992 let not even go there)

JJK1 1935 james John Kelly married Jean Napper (correct)

JJK2 1914-1935 James John Kelly married Alice Rowe 1935 (correct) on JJK2 birth cert shows father as private army service corp and Dock Labourer,also JJK2 Died in 1935 at Royal Victoria docks, so possible worked with father.(JK3)

Jk 3 1891? James Kelly Married Amelia Smith 1912(possible)

JK4 1864? John kelly married Catherine??(possible)
x

Hi Margaret --Sorry I wasn't on yesterday, got the Flu bug. feel rotton and head not quite mine !!!
I couldn't sleep so put Laptop on and found James/Tracys thread again --I
don't know why but i have a feeling that James c1890/1 died in WW1--I have looked (about 5 hours) but there are so many "Unknowns" for James Kelly that its anyones guess if he did or not !!!

What do you feel about this for James Kelly 3 ? I may be totally wrong though--its pure speculation !!

Birth Index
Name: James Kelly
Year of Registration: 1890
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Shoreditch
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1c
Page: 38
-----------------------------------------------

1891 Census

1891 England Census 1891 England Census
Name: James Kelly
Age: 1
Estimated birth year: abt 1890
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Eliza
Gender: Male
Where born: Shoreditch, London, England

Civil parish: Bethnal Green
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 6 Diss Street ???

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Bethnal Green
Sub-registration district: Bethnal Green North
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Kelly 26 --Dock Labourer--St Luke, London
Eliza Kelly 22 --St Luke, London
Eliza Kelly 4 --Shoreditch, London
James Kelly 1 --Shoreditch, London


Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 257; Folio 94; Page 52; GSU roll: 6095367.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe MARRIAGE index for John and Eliza

Marriages Sep 1886
John Kelly
Eliza Ann LOAKE
Bethnal Green 1c 542
-------------------------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

1901 census

1901 England Census 1901 England Census
Name: James Kelly
Age: 11
Estimated birth year: abt 1890
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Eliza A
Gender: Male
Where born: Shoreditch

Civil parish: Shoreditch
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew Hoxton
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 10 Wilmer Gardens

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Shoreditch
Sub-registration district: Haggerston
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 193
Household Members: Name Age
John Kelly 36--wharf Dock Labourer--St Luke
Eliza A Kelly 31 --St Luke
Eliza A Kelly 14 --Shoreditch
James Kelly 11 --Shoreditch
Ellen Kelly 7 --Bethnal Green
William Kelly 1 --Shoreditch
Henry Kelly 24 --Brother--House Painter--Bethnal Green

Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 277; Folio: 157; Page: 49.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1911 Census

1911 census transcription details for: 12 Wilmer Gardens Hoxton N

National Archive Reference:

RG14PN1360 RG78PN47 RD16 SD2 ED15 SN36


Reg. District: Shoreditch Sub District: Shoreditch North West
Parish: Shoreditch Enum. District: 15

Address: 12 Wilmer Gardens Hoxton N
County: London


Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

KELLY, Eliza Ann Head Widow F 41 1870 London St Lukes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

KELLY, James Son Single M 21 1890 Porter London Hoxton

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

KELLY, Ellen Elizabeth Daughter Single F 17 1894 Layer On London Bethnal Green

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

KELLY, William Son M 11 1900 School London Hoxton

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

KELLY, Henry Boarder Single M 35 1876 House Painter London Bethnal Green

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Could a "Porter" have been a Dock Labourer ?? --

John had died by 1911 --(on James marriage it did say father John dock Labourer Decd)

Oh well as I said Just pure Speculation --

All the best
Barbara xx

HI
Thanks for all your time again i really do appreciate it all.
Barbara this all looks so possible i have to stop myself feeling excited because i no we need proof.
When JJK2 married in 1935 we no that JK3 had already passed away but listed his job as a dock Labourer

JJK2 job on his marriage lines was meat porter he died the same year at the Royal Victoria Docks listed as a lorry drivers mate there must have been all working docks with different job descriptions?
sorry jumping about a bit
on JJK2 birth certificate father JK3 listed as private army service corps & (dock labourer) Amelia registered the birth living at 24 Spencer street.
would it help if i sent of for James JK3and Amelia's wedding cert
Thank you
P.s how rude of me hope you are feeling better soon
Tracy

Hi Tracy
Thanks for asking, love, I don't feel much better at the moment but I guess it will take a few days to "run it's course"

On the marriage Maureen found for you for Amelia and James 3 --it states his Father as John Kelly deceased Occ Carman !! So I wonder if I have the wrong John altogether.

I'm not sure if you would find anything else out if you sent for the Marriage Certificate--It all seems to be there on Maureens Posting But its always nice to have the actual cert in your hand (well a copy off actual cert. --I'm sure you know what I mean :-)

I will have another look round and see if I can find anything else

Best Wishes
Barbara xx

This MAYBE the Bennetts who were wittnesses for Amelia and James

Maybe Esther was a friend of Amelias as she lived in Martha street !!!

1911 census transcription details for: 59 Martha St St Georges E

National Archive Reference:

RG14PN1514 RG78PN53 RD19 SD1 ED16 SN102


Reg. District: St George in the East Sub District: St George and St John
Parish: St George in the East Enum. District: 16

Address: 59 Martha St St Georges E
County: London


Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BENNETT, James Head Widower M 49 1862 City Of London Corporation Pensioner Seven Step Alley City of London

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>BENNETT, John Son Married M 28 1883 Cartage Carman Mile End Old Town

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>BENNETT, Esther Daughter In Law Married --1 year-- F 20 1891 Seed Soster St Georges E

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BENNETT, William Son Single M 20 1891 Glass Porter Mile End Old Town

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BENNETT, Catherine Daughter F 14 1897 School St Georges E

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I think this will be the marriage index for John and Esther Bennett

Marriages Dec (quarter) 1910

BENNETT John
Shields Esther E

St.Geo.East 1c 530

AHH look who was living at 53 Martha Street in 1911 (Same address as Amelia had down for her wedding cert !!)
Its Esther Bennett (nee shields ) parents

1911 census transcription details for: 53 Martha St St Georges E

National Archive Reference:

RG14PN1514 RG78PN53 RD19 SD1 ED16 SN110


Reg. District: St George in the East Sub District: St George and St John
Parish: St George in the East Enum. District: 16

Address: 53 Martha St St Georges E
County: London


Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SHIELDS, Thomas Head Married
24 years M 51 1860 Greengrocers Assistant St Georges E

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SHIELDS, Emma Wife Married F 54 1857 St Georges E

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SHIELDS, Elizabeth Daughter Single F 23 1888 Waitress St Georges

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SHIELDS, Richard Son Single M 17 1894 Street Orderly Boy St Georges E

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

pm to Barbara re: Martha street addresses hope you dont mind? think you will understand why.
Tracy

Hi Barbara
Hope your feeling better, thank you for pm, there was a much better community friendships back then, my dad was born in 1932 and i love his stories and my nan's she passed away 2 years ago aged 94 miss her dearly, sorry getting of the track.
just a quick rethink before i go to work.
wondering
Does 1911 census on Amelia show her daughters fathers name i dont mind getting her birth certificate if it helps.

You found a James kelly aged 30 as a boarder dock labourer on the 1911 census can we get any more information place of birth or children.

found they got married in 1912

had jjk2 in 1914

jk3 may of enlisted round about then would the enlistment papers say he was married to an Amelia and state there children, on JJk2 birth cert listing jk3 as a private army service corps and in brackets dock labourer making me think that he may have only just joined but considered the dock job as his occupation.
just a thought
must leave for work, hope you have a good Day
Tracy

Hi Tracy

I wonder if anyone can help us out on this ---I don't know if it will be "online" but we need the inquest report On James J Kelly 1914 who died 1935 --what does it actually say on his Death cert ? You can send me a PM if you don't want to say on the board.

Best wishes
Barbara xx

Hi
I have his death cert, not very nice but no it is true as it is the only thing my father law spoke of regarding his father, who he did not no as died the same year as jjk1 (my father in law)was born.
hope this does not offend any one.
Laceration of the Brain due to a fracture of the skull crushed between two lorries at "Z" shed royal Victoria docks whilst at work inquest held 5th Nov 1935. Age 21 living 28 Pell street shadwell. lorry drivers mate
Tracy
xx

Hi Tracy
Bless him,
I am thinking there would be a "write up" in the newspaper about this accident, I was hoping someone would come back with an idea on how to look up in old newspapers !! However it seems they are not online --only though a library . I was hoping it would give more details about his wife and Parents --to make sure we had the right one,

I tried this site --but can't seem to find anything

http://archive.timesonline.co.uk/tol/archive/

PLEASE has anyone anymore ideas on how to help Tracy and James on this ?

Best wishes
Barbara xx

Hi Barbara
feel we are slowly losing our battle with the Kelly's just spent a few hours trying to look at old newspapers online cant really access that many, and not really sure what i am looking at, also found a hospital archive web page thought it may be helpful because on jjk2 death cert it says he died 2nd Nov 1935 at Albert Dock Hospital no luck there dont no if there is anyone on here who knows how to get these records?
there was a lady called Dea on here a few months back who dealt with the war details was wondering if i should try and contact her to see if she can find jk3 enlistment details
other than that i really dont no which way to go know?
Thank you for all your help and time on this.
Tracy
xx

Hi Tracy
Have a look at this thread of

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1188302

Its about accessing Newspapers online through the Library .
I have seached --for hours--to try and find records for James 3 in Army in WW1 but can't find a deffinate --or one near !! However I believe a lot were lost in the bombing in WW2 !!!! just our luck if JK3's was one of them.
Best wishes
Barbara xx

Hi Barbara
had a look at link will join that one if nothing else it will be very interesting,
It looks like our family really dont want to be found, i am getting very deflated but must keep trying.
Thank you once again
Tracy
xx

Sorry to all,,
I swear I've been looking too!
As sad as it seems,the death of a dock lab probably wouldn't have rated a write-up. (tried the Times online)

Someone must know how to access ASCorp records (Kew??). I know Dea will help if she can,but like most of us she's limited to what's out there.

There seem to be a few births that could be from the Kelly/Smith
union. If it would help I'll try to e-mail you a copy of Amelia and James' marriage cert. Thank goodness Barbara susssed out the witnesses!


Maureen

Hi Maureen
Thank you,
It is funny we can't seem to find JK 3 anywhere !! I know there was the one in 1911 census age 30 --but he was 10 years too old to be married to Amelia--I have had another look at the original image to see if it says 20 and not 30 but no it is a clear 30--so not been mistranscribed . and as I said before I have had the Army records inside out and upside down trying to find him !!!!

I am going to have a bash at the Bennett / Shields side of things--see if that brings anything to light --but I think it will be on Amelias side if it does !! but I think it will have to be tommorrow as my eyes are begining to droop.

Best wishes
Barbara xx

Yawn. I thought I might stay up until 10pm here. Not a chance.

Remind me,though-in case it could be of use-I've got a few of that Kelly family's certs online (Eliza Ann,etc. Mum maiden name Loakes does re-marry).

Maureen

Hi
Thank you all for still looking, i am at work at the moment so have not got my paper work with me, i do not have any marriage cert for the kelly's so cant help there, but will order them if it will help, also was wondering about Amelia's first daughter if that certificate will help. sorry cant stay online work does not permit the use of internet for own use.
Thank you once again really appreciate this help.
Tracy
xx

Hi
Just another thought again about the Bennett's 59 Martha street witness at JK3 and Amelia wedding, i cant get it out of my head that you have it right, on JJK2 marriage cert address 43 Martha street, i no it is some years apart wedding and birth, but is there any way we can find out who was living in 43 and 34 Martha street in the 1911 census( 34 Martha has a link to another part of family explained in pm to Barbara previously). Also re above post what do you think about me getting above birth cert Amelia?
just a thought thank you again.
Tracy
xx

Number 43 in 1911

1911 census transcription details for: 43 Martha St St Georges E
National Archive Reference: RG14PN1514 RG78PN53 RD19 SD1 ED16 SN116


Reg. District: St George in the East Sub District: St George and St John
Parish: St George in the East Enum. District: 16

Address: 43 Martha St St Georges E County: London


Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation, Where Born

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MIDDLEBROOK, Thomas Head Married
27 years M 52 1859 Carman London Shorditch
MIDDLEBROOK, Hannah Wife Married
27 years F 45 1866 London St Georges East
MIDDLEBROOK, Alic Daughter Single F 17 1894 London Poplar
MIDDLEBROOK, Herbeth Son Single M 15 1896 London Poplar
MIDDLEBROOK, Edward Son Single M 13 1898 School London Limehouse
MIDDLEBROOK, Fredrick Son Single M 7 1904 London Limehouse
TAGG, Lizzie Boarder Single F 18 1893 Servant Domestic London Limehouse
DICKEL, Conrad Head Married
8 years M 25 1886 Wall Paper Pattern Book Maker London Limehouse
DICKEL, Florence Wife Married
8 years F 27 1884 London St Georges in East
DICKEL, Harry Son Single M 8 1903 London Stepney
DICKEL, Sidney Son Single M 6 1905 London Stepney