Find Ancestors

Thanks for all your help AG and Shirley

Hmmm -
I suspect this is the Alice Theobald who married Thomas Bartley.
She's with her parents in Manchester 1891 and 1901, but not 1911:

Alice Theobald
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: Alice Theobald
Registration Year: 1886
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration District: Manchester
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8d
Page: 314



So it's beginning to look as though James and Alice didn't marry.

Can't see them together in 1939.

Grandson said 'she died when he was 17, so 1964'.

See my last post.

EDIT:
BUT that's not the Alice born in 1899. She would only have been 7 in 1906.

Is the 1965 death definitely the correct one?

Well it’s not Alice Bartley

Births Jun 1908
Bartley Alice Manchester 8d 248

So too young !

Not according to the 'grandchildren', however the records don't usually lie, or get it wrong.
Wonder if Alice was married before and Theobald was her previous married name.

??
Marriages Dec 1906 (>99%)
BARTLEY Thomas Prestwich 8d 660
Theobald Alice Prestwich 8d 660

Can't see them in 1911.

Still not seeing that marriage

Couid she be a different surname

Marriages Sep 1938
Bartley Alice Holland Manchester S. 8d 518
Holland James E Bartley Manchester S. 8d 518

Should have said, apparently she was German, or of German descent.

So working backwards Alice was born c1899

Deaths Mar 1965
HOLLAND ALICE 66 Manchester 10e 57

I haven't found a marriage for James and Alice, apparently it was some time after they took in Edna. Edna's grandson gave me the info, Alice Theobald died in 1965, in Manchester I expect. He didn't say when Jim Holland died.

Where and when did James and Alice marry, please?

Like Shirley, I'm not seeing such a marriage .

Not that I'm seeing Edna with any James Holland in 1939 in any case.

No, Thomas Wildman was her father. Her mother Esther died when she was an infant. First she went to Liverpool, to some of her mothers family, then when she was 4 her father took her from them and gave her to James Holland and his second wife Alice. She thought they were her parents, and her children called them grandparents. The children were teenagers when they found the truth, probably about 1960.

Not seeing that later marriage

Was James Holland Edna father ?

Edna was brought up by James Holland and Alice Theobald, they married later and had no children of their own, apparently.

Thanks for that marriage Shirley, I didn't spot it myself.

It does look like James and Ellen did marry

Marriages Mar 1902
Holland James Edward Manchester 8d 349
Wood Ellen Manchester 8d 349

Thanks shirley. I did have that from her dau.

Edna death probably not been picked up so she wouid be a closed record on the 1939 register


England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007 No Image
Name: Edna Platt
Death Age: 77
Birth Date: 23 Sep 1923
Registration Date: Nov 2000
Registration District: Bolton
Inferred County: Greater Manchester
Register Number: C67A
District and Subdistrict: 0021C
Entry Number: 74


What family members did she live with .,maybe they can be found on the 1939 register

Yes, that was the record I saw, but Edna Wildman married Fred Platt in 1943 in Bolton, so a red herring.

Possibly -

Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page

Marriages Mar 1942 (>99%)
Brabin Florence Lever Bolton 8c 760
Lever John Brabin Bolton 8c 760
Marsh Frederick Wildman Bolton 8c 760
Wildman Edna Marsh Bolton 8c 760