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Sorry that was a mistype. I have their marriage cert. I had to get it to find my Grandmother's maiden name for as a child I asked "what her name was" and was told " Grandmama" I never dared asked again
Anne

Hi all

I have found this web site compiled by Bristol University they researched Chinese maritime history and I have found the following

"Bubbling Well Cemetery (Jing'an), opened 1898, closed 1951, total burials c.5,500, total cremations, c.1,350. In the winter of 1953-54 the cemetery was reclaimed for redevelopment. Graves were removed to the Dazang cemetery. There were 43 British naval and 13 British military graves. In the process of removal of the military graves the Chinese authorities deliberately obliterated all details other than names (see PRO file FO 369/5018, 1954). The present Jing'an Park occupies the site."

They have a search for burials and of course not knowing Isabella's married name I could not find her. I did try isabella Smith and came up with a lady buried in shanghai in 1944 aged 65 which can't be her.

This is a good site for anyone searching China

Anne

Hi Anne, what do you think about the following:

On Lancashire BMD's there is a marriage for Isabella Smith and a William A Cattelle in 1885:

SMITH Isabella CATTELLE William A West Derby, Register Office or Registrar Attended Liverpool REG_WD/102/131

I searched for William A Cattelle an he is in West Derby in 1881, his occupation is Marine Engineer
William A. Catelle
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1861
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Buffalo, United States

Civil parish: Everton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: 38 Anderson St
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Marine Engineer (SM)

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Everton
ED, institution, or vessel: 39
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Sarah Catelle 38
William A. Catelle 20
Ernest E. Catelle 19
Mary J. Cox 50
William S. Foote 40
Dircas T. Foote 38
Thomas R. Foote 10

then I searched for a Cattelle birth and found
Births Dec 1887

Cattelle Mabel W.Derby 8b 487

Hope I am not clucthing at straws!

Jennifer

His name appears to be William Alfred Cattelle and he appears on Incoming Passenger Lists to UK but I only have Essential so can't view it. Probably him coming form USA though

Jennifer, you are soooo clever!!!!

UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
about William Alfred Cattelle
Name: William Alfred Cattelle
Birth Date: abt 1861
Age: 53
Port of Departure: Yokohama, Japan
Arrival Date: 11 Oct 1914
Port of Arrival: London, England
Ports of Voyage: Kobe, Nagasaki, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Singapore, Penang, Colombo, Port Said, Marseilles
Ship Name: Katori Maru
Search Ship Database: View the 'Katori Maru' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line: Japan Europe Line
Official Number: 16494




Occupation; Engineer!!!



Dee x

Having a few PC probs at the mo.

Will keep trying to check other Cattelles out though.


Dee

This looks like Mabel and Isabella in 1891;

1891 Isle of Man Census
about Mabel Cattell
Name: Mabel Cattell
Age: 3
Estimated birth year: abt 1888
Relation: Granddaughter
Mother's Name: Isabella
Gender: Female
Where born: England
Civil parish: Onchan
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
Town: Douglas
County/Island: Isle of Man
Country: Isle of Man
Street Address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration district: Isle of Man
Sub-registration district: H
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Sarah Cattell 48
Isabella Cattell 26 >>> Daughter in Law
Mabel Cattell 3
Charles S Watson 25 Visitor
Arthur H Watson 21 Visitor


Just states born England



Dee x

Dee, it came to me in the night, (how sad is that). I thought I'd check on the Lancashire BMD's they are so good. I do like solving mysteries, just wish I could solve some of mine.

I have sent Anne a PM in case she doesn't come back to her thread. I think I would risk £7 on the marraiage cert to confirm her father's name

Jennifer

Hi you two, you are a force to be reckoned with. If I could bottle you I would make a fortune.

Well enough with the buttering up.!!!!!!

I put Isaballa Cotell and Cotelle on the Bristol University web site... no luck so I have sent for the marriage cert.
I will let you know when it arrives

It looks as though you have found them. Can I send a photo on grm

Anne

oh do let us know Anne.
It looks as if William and his brother Ernest were born in USA but the parents were from Cambridgeshire, UK, here they are in 1871
William E Cattell
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1836
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Isle of Ely Statton, Cambridge
Civil parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: St James the Less
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: St Martin
ED, institution, or vessel: 42
Household schedule number: 124
Household Members: Name Age
William E Cattell 35 occ: Engineer
Sarah Cattell 31 born Isle of Ely, Statton, Cambridge
William A Cattell 10 born New York
Ernest E Cattell 7 born New York

A well travelled family

I have a photo of Aunt Isabella if you would like a copy let me know

Thanks your help I could never have found them on my own.


Anne

Well I'm Back... I said I would be

I have the marriage cert and it can't be my aunt I think it is her mother.
This lady was Isabella Smith 54yrs Widow of 17 Kirkdale (can't read) father Thomas Cowen Stonemason. She married William Taylor Dawson age 50 Widower it looks like leak grower of Osbourne Grove Everton . His father was Thomas Dawson a shipwright. They were married14th Feb 1887at Sharon Hall baptists West derby by certificate. The witness were Alfred Atkinson and Alice Smith.

My Greatgrand father was a stableman looking after horses for the Tramways. He died about 1887

Anne

I have found William on the 1881 Census. He is a cab owner not a "leak grower" !!! Living with his wife and baby son at 1 Osborne Grove Everton.

So did her daughter Isabella marry William Catelle and go to china where she died and was buried in Bubbling well cemetery Peking. Is there any way to find out ? news papers etc

Anne

Hi Anne , I hate to say this but have you sent for the right certificate.

This is the one that I meant:

' On Lancashire BMD's there is a marriage for Isabella Smith and a William A Cattelle in 1885:

SMITH Isabella CATTELLE William A West Derby, Register Office or Registrar Attended Liverpool REG_WD/102/131

on FreeBMD
Marriages Mar 1885 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>Cattelle William Alfred W. Derby 8b 705
Gillis John W. Derby 8b 705
SCALLON Mary Josephine W.Derby 8b 705
>>SMITH Isabella W.Derby 8b 705

Yes... I think I sent for it ... .....but it has not arrived yet I sent for some others at the same time. perhaps today's post.

Anne

Hi ..I have just looked up my emails and I ordered it on 25 March. Together with Mabel's birth. I suppose they are running slow due to extra work as people were trying to beat the price going up
Anne

Anne isn't it frustrating when they all come at different times, I'm still waiting for one.

The marriage cert you have got for Isabella Smith must be your gt grandmother's second marriage to William Taylor Dawson. I don't think he lasted long if I remember rightly!


Jennifer

Yes it is and is very interesting as in the 1891 census her occupation is Butcher. My grandfather's occupation is also a butcher. My Mother said he went to work for his Uncles Jeremiah & Zacharmiah. There are other Dawson butchers on the 81 census but they are Charles & Alfred, but i have not found these two uncles

Anne

Well back again

Two more certs... but....not the one we wanted.

William Taylor Dawson... Died 18/5/1890
Address ..1 Osborne Close
Age.. 54
Occupation... Car Proprietor
Cause..... peritonitis
Informant....J Smith, son in law>>>> this would be Joseph ( Jo)

My mother writes.. Jo married Margaret and lived in a house in a gated complex in Stanley park, Litherland . They had four sons and one daughter. ( No names ..of course)and a son named Cowen. Very strict Baptists

The second cert also a death

Isabella Dawson
Date and Place ... 15 Feb 1893 of 12 Eastbourne st
Age.. 60 yrs
Informant........ A Atkinson, daughter of 10 Eastborne St Everton

My mother writes that Alice married a pig farmer from Yorkshire. She became a butcher and continued to raise pigs( I hope not at 10 Eastborne St !!!) She had a had a son & a daughter

So now at last I have a few more names to try, at least they are not Smith.
Still waiting for Isabella(Daughter) Marriage cert.
Anne

So Anne did Alice Smith marry the Alfred Atkinson who was a witness at her mother's wedding in 1887?

looks like it:
From Lancashire BMD's
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
ATKINSON Alfred SMITH Alice West Derby, Register Office or Registrar Attended Liverpool REG_WD/110/196

from FreeBMD
Marriages Mar 1887

ATKINSON Alfred W Derby 8b 676