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brussels? what about the ozone layer ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~lol

Yes ladies, I appreciate your domestic worries. We've just had the first of English Asparagus.

But can someone tell me if the Borthwick Institute does bmds? I don't think so.

And yes, Maureen, I'll pay for the damn marriage cert myself if need be. I't done it once or twice before.

I'll give the nice man another pm.

The Herbert in Hull on 1911 census born @ 1894 in Askwith was the son of James Watkinson born Burley Woodhead Yorkshire 1862 died1923 in Ilkley and Mary ellen Snowden 1866

In 1901 James and Mary were in Harrogate D30 Image 5 visiting a John Crowther born Leeds 1868.No children with James and Mary.

1911 they were at Forrest Lane Starbeck Harrogate James was born 1862 a farmer master.
Mary born Otley 1865 married 22years.
With them is son Percy Snowden Watkinson a student born Southend Essex in 1896 he became a Minister.

Also written in but then crossed out is HERBERT 18 = 1892 depending on time of year born so this is him in Hull 1911
Also written and crossed out is daughter Annie age 20 she was at 68,Walker Road Harrogate in 1911

When you add this up him being born York 1892 it does fit in with the Herbert above and especially being born in Askwith Yorkshire.

Maryb
What do you think ?

I have acsess to two trees with Percy S Watkinson in but they don't give anything about Herbert so I have just contacted them to see if they can tell me anything,also two others that have Percy but I don't have their trees open to me.
Hope the answer so we can rule him in or out.

I think I semi-ruled that one out because he seems to be this one:
Births Sep 1892
WATKINSON Herbert Wharfedale 9a 144
(not that it matters,since we're all just guessing here!)

Also,the occupation of excise clerk just didn't seem to jive with Herbert being a coal carter on his service record.

Certainly worth checking out though!

Maureen

For Maureen.................


1901 England Census
about Gertrude Watkinson
Name: Gertrude Watkinson
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1889
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Robert
Mother's Name: Annie
Gender: Female
Where born: Hull, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Sculcoates
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Sculcoates
Sub-registration district: Sutton
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 106
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Watkinson 47
Annie Watkinson 46
William Watkinson 21
Arthur Watkinson 14
>>>>>>>>>>>Gertrude Watkinson 12
Beatrice Watkinson 5

A couple of years out but maybe a possible?



1901 England Census
about Herbert Watkinson
Name: Herbert Watkinson
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1889
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Arthur
Mother's Name: Fanny
Gender: Male
Where born: Sheffield, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Sheffield
Ecclesiastical parish: Netherthorpe Sheffield St Anne
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:206 St Philips Road

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Sheffield
Sub-registration district: North Sheffield
ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 26
Household Members:
Name Age
Arthur Watkinson 42 Bone Cutter (employer)born Sheffield, Yorkshire,
Fanny Watkinson 38 wife born Dronfield, Derbyshire,
Herbert Watkinson 12 son born Sheffield, Yorkshire
Arthur Whiteaker 27 Boarder
James Taylor 25 Boarder
Ernest Swions 22 Boarder
Rhys Evans 24 Boarder


Then again..........maybe not?

1911 census transcription details for: 33 Fountain Square
National Archive Reference:
RG14PN27881 RG78PN1595 RD510 SD2 ED14 SN304

Reg. District: Sheffield Sub District: North Sheffield
Parish: Sheffield Enum. District: 14
Address: 33 Fountain Square
County: Yorkshire (West riding)
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born
WATKINSON, John Arthur Head Married
24 years M 50 1861 Wood Handle Sawyer Yorks Sheffield
WATKINSON, Fanny Wife Married F 48 1863 Derlgth Dronfield
WATKINSON, Herbert Son Single M 22 1889 File Cutter Machine Yorks Sheffield

Bless the lad, he has gone to the York Records office and paid double the usual amount to get the marriage cert, to satisfy us all. I'm sure he'll be here soon to tell you, but I'm sticking my nose in early:

Herbert Watkinson age 22, Elizabeth Squirrel age 18.
Herbert living at Yard off East Parade, Heworth, York, Elizabeth at 19 Ebor Buildings, York. I've done an address search for East Parade on the 1911, plenty of houses but no Yard mentioned.
His father John William, bricklayer, her father Edward Squirrel general lab.
Witnesses Arthur Ernest Scott and Gertrude Fletcher.

When and where was John William born?

Maryb

I'm blowed if we know, Mary. I can't find him either.

Did garry give you the marriage info?

Maryb

No promises:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915
about John William Watkinson
Name: John William Watkinson
Year of Registration: 1881
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: York
County: Yorkshire - East Riding, Yorkshire - North Riding, North Yorkshire, Yorkshire - West Riding
Volume: 9d
Page: 80 (click to see others on page)

Spouse either Maria or Elizabeth. However, Maria possibly married Samuel Whitely, I have found what might be them in 1891.

John William Watkinson born heworth 1858 -1943 married elizabeth Beaumont 1861-1943.

No mention of herbert but the tree i saw it on didn't have census for them in 1901.

Parents of John William were John born Knaresborough 1835 died in St Helens. and Mary born 1824 Pontefract.

Maryb

This is him in 1881, Bricklayer, and parents:

1881 England Census
about John Wm. Watkinson
Name: John Wm. Watkinson
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1858
Relation: Son
Spouse's name: Elizab.
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Yorkshire, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Heworth
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Bricklayer

Registration district: York
Sub-registration district: Walmgate
ED, institution, or vessel: 35
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Watkinson 46 Engine Driver
Mary Watkinson 57
George Wrigglesworth 33 (son of first H?)
John Wm. Watkinson 23
Elizab. Watkinson 20
Susanna Watkinson 21

Agree Mary's info too.

poss?

1891 England Census about Elizabeth Watkinson
Name: Elizabeth Watkinson
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1861
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: John Wm
Gender: Female
Where born: Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Heworth
Ecclesiastical parish: Heworth Holy Trinity
Town: Heworth
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: York
Sub-registration district: Walmgate
ED, institution, or vessel: 33
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
John Wm Watkinson 33 bricklayer
Elizabeth Watkinson 30
Jessie Watkinson 7
John Wm Watkinson 6
Frank Watkinson 2
Eliza Watkinson under 10 months
View
Original
Record

View original image

This is them in 1891 - no Herbert!!!

1891 England Census
about John Wm Watkinson
Name: John Wm Watkinson
Age: 33
Estimated birth year: abt 1858
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Heworth
Ecclesiastical parish: Heworth Holy Trinity
Town: Heworth
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Registration district: York
Sub-registration district: Walmgate
ED, institution, or vessel: 33
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Wm Watkinson 33
Elizabeth Watkinson 30
Jessie Watkinson 7
John Wm Watkinson 6
Frank Watkinson 2
Eliza Watkinson under 10 months

That's them in 1891!!
Marriages Jun 1913
Scott Arthur E Watkinson York 9d 16
Watkinson Eliza Scott York 9d 16

Marriages Jun 1914
FLETCHER Windross Watkinson York 9d 113
WATKINSON Gertrude Feltcher(sic) York 9d 113

Maureen

All dissapeared 1901.
Jessie 1884 died 1899
John William 1885
Frank 1889-1963 married in Liverpool 1916 to Catherine Wildes had 8 kids
Eliza 1890.
Can't find any yet in 1911.

Herbert wouldn't be on 1891 census as not yet born !!

Maryb

Silly me!

So there's the witnesses too. Well done!

So, no Maureen, your Gertrude wasn't a red herring:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Gertrude Watkinson
Name: Gertrude Watkinson
Year of Registration: 1895
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: York
County: Yorkshire - East Riding, Yorkshire - North Riding, North Yorkshire, Yorkshire - West Riding
Volume: 9d
Page: 50 (click to see others on page)

Maybe she's with Herbert in 1901 and 1911?