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Samuel Hopwood circa 1780. Born Manchester
Spouse Margaret. Forth. Married oct 13 th 1805
Son charles



Any one know any more? Have come to a dead end.

Sharon :). Previously Sharon Hopwood

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1345383

Hi everyone,

Just want to bring everyone up to date. Have received the birth certificate for Alice Hopwood, born in Aug 1839 and yes, her mother was Jane Schofield. As Thomas and Jane were married in 1839 have sent for their marriage certificate which might help me find a link to Peter's family.

Have a hypothesis which I would like to run past everyone.

I searched for Mary Turner in the 1851 census and found a Mary, aged 44, widow, living with her father, William in Walton le Dale. The William Turner listed as Mary's father was a Chelsea Pensioner. I then searched for a death for Peter Hopwood and have found one in 1847 - these dates match. Peter was alive in 1845 as he is listed on the convict papers for his son Joseph. I haven't been able to find the family in the 1851 census so this would explain why. There are other Turner families in Walton le Dale so am thinking Thomas and Jane and Alice Hopwood may have been visiting Peter and his family on the night of the 1841 census rather than the other way round.

Thomas and Jane and Alice are from Manchester/Salford area so it is possible Peter's family were also in that area however it is hard to know when Peter went to Walton le Dale. His children were born in 1823 and 1827. He could have gone to Walton le Dale for a job or so that Mary was close to her family. If he died from mercury poisoning he might have a record at the Manchester Mental Hospital.

When I was in Manchester some 10 years ago now, I visited the Family History Society and searched the Manchester Directories. I found a Peter Hopwood, hatter, in the 1831 Directory listed at 7 Arundel Street, Manchester. There were two Arundel Streets - one off Oldham Road which disappeared by 1881 from the Street Directory and the other off St. Andrews Square which also disappeared from the Street Directory in 1871. I am told that Oldham Road leads to Salford which is where Joseph mentioned his grandmother's house was located. So am now interested in finding this grandmother and maybe Thomas's father's name might help with this.

There is still the question about Peter's whereabouts. If he was born in Manchester he could have lived and worked in Manchester, his children could have been born in Manchester and sometime between 1831 and 1841 he and the family went to live in Walton le Dale. He did not appear in the 1841 Directory at 7 Arundel Street. Or I accept that the Peter Hopwood listed in the 1831 directory may not have been our Peter at all.

Will be interested in comments.

Barbara

Thank you Janey - will now go ahead and order the certificate. I think I now understand about quarters.

I'm sorry too Margaret that your Hopwoods don't tie in with mine - I'd dearly love someone to pop us saying yes, we had a Joseph who was sent off to Tasmania! Apparently there are two other Joseph Hopwoods who were also transported - but earlier - 1817 or thereabouts.

Barbara

Just to say some good work done here. Pity none of it tied in with my Hopwoods of Oldham and Glossop. But Stockport was definitely the centre of Hatting, though none of my Hopwoods were Hatters. Shame.

Hope you succeed

Margaret

Barbara - the month names you see in the GRO ref aren't months, they're quarters.

"Sep" means the July, August, September quarter. Someone born during that period (or in June or even May) was registered in the third quarter, called "September" but covering the whole quarter. (Someone born in September, or even August, might also have been registered in the December quarter.)

So that one, that I posted way back and you are seeing in the index, is almost certainly the same one as in the baptism record!

Hi Ann and Janey,

Thank you for all this info. and Ann, many thanks for taking your time to look up records for me. I do appreciate it. I am trying to find the GRO volume and page for the birth of Alice christened August 28th 1839. When I look in freebmd list it gives Alice as born in September - so am not sure if this is the same Alice. I would hate to think that there are two! We have the batch no. from the IGI - is that sufficient to obtain the certificate?

I think you are right re William and Samuel if father Thomas was a smith - they are a different family. It is possible that Sarah born 1847 and James born 1844 are children of our Thomas and Jane will have to see which Jane we have.

I found an article in Stockport Express, 2002 "Looking Back" in which it stated that in 1840 the felt hatting industry in Stockport was on the verge of collapse. "Hatters were put onto shop time and workers were said to be suffering 'great distress and destitution'.
A saviour was at hand in the shape of William Barber, who learned silk hat making skills and invented new machinery to turn the Christy factory around."

So I wonder whether Peter and Thomas were able to learn the new skills of silk hat making or whether they had to look for new employment.

Barbara

That's terrific work there!

So I do really recommend going for the Alice Hopwood birth cert to get the wife's name, to settle which marriage it is, then if Schofield get the Hopwood-Schofield marriage certificate, and at least have some firm names of relations.

forgot to mention James

James baptised 8 Sept 1844 at man Cathedral s of Thomas & Jane, Thomas is a Hatter

also did notice a Sarah Hopwood age 30 on a passenger list to New Orleans in 1857 but there do seem to be a few of them around

Hi Barbara

Actually the records in the LRO are the other ways round UP to 1837 for marriages and 1853 for births at the cathedral.

I started looking for a Hopwood baptism in the Cathedral in 1826 but sorry soon gave up. After about 5 mins and 10 pages I had only reached 8th Jan! They seemed to be baptising a lot every day.

However - the ones where the date was on the IGI:-

Alice Hopwood 28 Aug 1839 d of Thomas & Jane , Thomas was a hatter so looks promising

24 Aug 1851 - William Sarah & Samuel - all children of a Thomas & Jane
I think they are 2 separate families. William & Samuel were consecutive in the register William b 21-3-1841 & Samuel b 3-3-1850. Father Thomas was a smith (did not specify what type)

Sarah appeared a couple of pages later b 14-2-1847 father Thomas was a HATTER

possibly they were the families of (A) a Thomas & Jane Bridge and (B) a Thomas & Jane Schofield mentioned in previous posts

I looked for baptisms at Walton-le Dale in 1826/7 but no Hopwoods. There was a printed record of baptism pre 1812 and there were several Hopwoods in there, including a Peter so it is a name that was in the area.

There is a death on ancestry for a Peter Hopwood in 1876 age 74 so looked for a will.
The Peter concerned was late of Gorton nr Manchester labourer who died 20-7-1876. Letters of admin granted at Manchester to Nancy Hopwood widow of 20 Lord Street gorton on 18 Dec 1876. That possibly is the Nancy I found in 1881 with children Peter & James (see a previous post)
Unfortunately the LRO only hold wills proved at Lancaster & Liverpool so could not look at the details of the will. Could be your Peter as he possibly by the age of 74 was no longer working as a hatter.

Hope this is of some use. If you want me to do more lookups I'm sure I will be there again in a week or two.

Ann, I'm not doing very well today - in my last message I mentioned that Sarah was born in 1837, well no, I have that wrong, she was born in 1827.

Barbara

Ann, when I replied to you earlier I forgot that the records you acess are from 1837 onwards and all the people I mentioned were born before then. I will obtain the birth certificate for Alice Hopwood, born 1839 as that would seem to agree with the census listing for 1841 - she was 2 years of age. But of course, she may not be the right Alice. Janey has found a marriage for Thomas and Jane Schofield in 1839 and I found a marriage for Thomas and Jane Bridge. I guess either one might be the right Thomas. If there is any information for Sarah, Joseph's sister, that would be wonderful. According to my reckoning she would have been born in 1837 so she might squeak into the records.
I had a look at hatting processes and there is a process for bleaching although it seemed more common in the textile industry. Both Thomas and Peter were hatters.
Barbara

Thank you again for all the information. I have a lot to do.

Ann thank you especially for your offer of looking up at the records office. I am really interested in the Thomas Hopwood who lived in the same house with Peter in 1841 but I think he would have been born between 1812 and 1816. Sarah seems to disappear after 1841 but she would have been born in 1827. Peter was born between 1802 and 1806 (according to 1841 census listing. If you could find anything about these births that would be wonderful. I like Janey's suggestion that I contact some of the present day Hopwoods in Denton, could also try Walton-le-Dale for good measure.

Barbara

Barbara

I may be going to the Lancs record office tomorrow (Fri). They have marriages at Manchester Cathedral up to 1837 & baptisms to 1851.

Is there anything you think it would be worth me looking for.

I've got a bit lost with all the Hopwoods found on this thread and wondered if there was a specific area you would like to concentrate on.

Just to add a Denton line of Hopwoods...

Birth/Christening, Lancashire, England, British Isles
Father: George Hopwood, Mother: Leah
Exact Spelling: Off
Batch Number: C005142
[refine search] [Print]
Prepare selected records for download

International Genealogical Index / British Isles - 18
Select records to download - (50 maximum)
1. JOHN HOPWOOD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 14 FEB 1821

2. JOHN HOPWOOD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 22 APR 1821 Denton, Lancashire, England

3. MARY HOPWOOD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 02 OCT 1818

4. MARY HOPWOOD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 20 DEC 1818 Denton, Lancashire, England

5. GEORGE HOPWOOD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 19 JAN 1823

6. GEORGE HOPWOOD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 16 MAR 1823 Denton, Lancashire, England

7. FANNY HOPWOOD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 16 JAN 1830

8. FANNY HOPWOOD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 28 MAR 1830 Denton, Lancashire, England

9. THOMAS HOPWOOD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 28 FEB 1827

10. THOMAS HOPWOOD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 20 MAY 1827 Denton, Lancashire, England

11. JOSEPH HOPWOOD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 07 DEC 1824

12. JOSEPH HOPWOOD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 13 FEB 1825 Denton, Lancashire, England

13. ISAIAH HOPWOOD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 06 NOV 1831

14. ISAIAH HOPWOOD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 24 JUN 1832 Denton, Lancashire, England

15. WILLIAM HOPWOOD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 10 MAY 1816

16. WILLIAM HOPWOOD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 18 AUG 1816 Denton, Lancashire, England

17. JAMES HOPWOOD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 13 JAN 1814

18. JAMES HOPWOOD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 03 JUL 1814 Denton, Lancashire, England

Aha. *One* Thomas Hopwood did marry Jane Schofield.


JANE SCHOFIELD
Spouse: THOMAS HOPWOOD
Marriage: 11 FEB 1839 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England
Batch No.: M005469

But there is no Peter Hopwood marriage in that batch.

This is the batch number for Denton births: C005142 - but it runs only to 1837. No births for Peter around his time, and no births with father Peter.

Manchester Cathedral baptism records in the IGI are broken up into many batches of narrow year ranges, you can take a look (copy and paste the link back together)

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis
/IGIBatchNumbers/CountyLancashire_(L-O).htm#M

More Hopwoods than you can shake a stick at. I hold out hope that the birth certificate for that Alice I mentioned will be this one:

ALICE HOPWOOD
Christening: 28 AUG 1839 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England
Father: THOMAS HOPWOOD
Mother: JANE
Batch No.: C097898

and confirm Jane's surname.

Here you are, yes, you are in the right place now!

We should have established the Stockport business at the beginning. Those of us who have been around the block here know better than to accept the opening volley of info as gospel, and I think we have an example here. The first question is or should always be: where did the info come from, how do you know that, what verification do you have ...?

(Because we can't rely on people asking to say: my great-uncle now deceased who was working before the internet and left a hand-drawn tree behind said ...!)

I think looking for extended family around the same times is a good approach, myself. Finding people who share characteristics - birthplace, occupation, given names in the family, etc - and seeing whether any links can be found.

I really would try to get a birth certificate or two, for both Peter's and Thomas's children. Identifying their wives (the mothers shown on the certificates) would go a long way toward finding marriages and thus placing them geographically at a point before the censuses. If you were very lucky the marriage I suggested as a possible for Thomas:

Marriages Mar 1839
SCHOFIELD Jane Manchester 20 370

would turn out to match his children and that would give you his father's name, and you could work on connecting him (or not) with Peter.

Ahem. Search Trees -- for Hopwood, born in Denton. A couple of GR members have Thomas 1820; one also has Samuel 1847, his son. There is a page of results, running from 1780 to the present. You may have cousins still living in the home town. Heck, BT online has 16 results for Hopwood in DENTON {Manchester} - most in Stockport, but one in Denton proper.

http://www.thephonebook.bt.com

if you want to look.

I would certainly contact every member here who has Hopwoods born in Denton in their tree!

Hi Janey,

I'm very sorry if I've been answering the posts privately and not in the proper way. I have never used this board before and I have no idea what the difference is between a thread and the inbox. I hope this is the right box to send this message to everyone.

Thank you for all the info you have given me - it will take me some time to go through it all and follow up all the websites.

In answer to your question - how did we know Peter Hopwood was born in Stockport. We were accepting the info given by a family member that they had found the 1851, 1861 and 1871 listings for Peter in the census documents. We only had the listing of Peter and no other members of the household. In the 1851 census it states Peter was born in Stockport. Last night a friend looked up the 1851 census listing for me and the other members of the household listed make it clear that this is a different family - the one mentioned by David in his post. In the 1841 census Peter is listed as born in the county (I think) I have difficulty reading the copy of the census information that I have, so that would mean he was born in Lancashire.

Maybe I need to concentrate on Walton-le-Dale and see if I can find any extended family in that area.

Barbara

you should also look at the Lancashire Online Parish Clerks (OPC) project ........ several other counties are now also involved in trying to get parish registers pre 1837 on line

www.lan-opc.org.uk/




Janey ................... here's another site for you to tuck away into your memory bank. It can be great .................. or there can be nothing there that "you" want!




sylvia

this is very much guesswork

1881
Andrew LEVER Head M Male 56 Stalybridge, Lancashire, England Painters Laborer
Martha LEVER Wife M Female 57 Stalybridge, Cheshire, England
Nancy HOPWOOD Boarder W Female 49 Manchester, Lancashire, England
Peter HOPWOOD Boarder Male 14 Manchester, Lancashire, England Painters Laborer
James HOPWOOD Boarder Male 10 Manchester, Lancashire, England Scholar

Source Information:
Dwelling 33 Clayton Lane
Census Place Bradford, Lancashire, England
Family History Library Film 1341958
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 4015 / 49
Page Number 20