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Walter in 1891

Name: Walter Irish
Age: 38
Estimated birth year: abt 1853
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Fanny
Gender: Male
Where born: Chichester, Sussex, England

Civil parish: Rumbolds Wyke
Ecclesiastical parish: Rumbolds Wyke
Town: Rumbolds Wyke
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Westhampnett
Sub-registration district: Wyke
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Walter Irish 38
Fanny Irish 37
Sydney Irish 9
Amey Irish 7
Daisey Irish 4
May Irish 11/12

It is possible that 1901 Jessie is at Lavant Home - I have googled it - but cant find anything - which is strange.
There IS currently a girls school there, but it was established in 1952! ...so it cant be that!
Weird that I cant find anything else for Lavamt!

Might be worth considering:


1891 England Census
about Jessie Irish
Name: Jessie Irish
Age: 4
Estimated birth year: abt 1887
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Kate
Gender: Female
Where born: Notting Hill, London, England

Civil parish: Sub Deanery
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Chichester
Sub-registration district: Chichester
ED, institution, or vessel: Chichester Workhouse
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Kate Irish 33
John Irish 9 Born: Chichester
Jessie Irish 4

On the original page is says Kate is Single. She was born in Boxgrove, Sussex

Could be John's birth:
Births Jun 1882
Irish John Chichester 2b 418

If that IS Jessie in 1891 - it is showing her as 4yrs old & we know that she was born in 1890 - 29th October.....so I am a bit puzzled.

Are there any births in Notting Hill for Jessie Irish - in 1890 ( in case the census got her age wrong. and why would she be born in Notting Hill if all her family were from Chichester - what is the connection?

And..

If it IS the same Jessie in Lvant Home in 1901 - what IS Lavant home??? Is it a school - or a home for girls ???? and what kind of home is it?

I notice that Rosa Irish also went to the Lavant Home - 10yrs before Jessie.

Also - Kate (who) - Jessie mother - if it IS the correct Jessie......is she around in the 1881 census at all? - where?

I am nowalso looking for the marriage of:
Fanny Irish - Johns mum - ( John is Jessie Irish's dad)

Fanny must have married c 1840 - probably in Sussex.

However - my main priority is finding the actual birth record for Jessie Irish 29th Oct 1890.
and
The birth rcord of her relation ( relationship as yet unknown) Rosa Irish.

Until you get a birth cert, you can't be 100% certain of the DOB - as explained earlier.

There is also no PROOF that John Irish is Jessie's father until you get a cert. I can't see a death for him on either freebmd or the CWGC site.

He could, of course, be her father, but not married to her mother...............

As for Fanny's marriage - check out freebmd.

1851

Name: Clement Irish
Age: 2
Estimated birth year: abt 1849
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Charles
Mother's Name: Frances
Gender: Male
Where born: Chichester, Sussex, England

Civil parish: Chichester St Pancras
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Chichester
Sub-registration district: Sutton
ED, institution, or vessel: 10b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 77
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Irish 41 b. Boxgrove
Frances Irish 31 b. Densworth
Charles Irish 9
Jane Irish 4
Clement Irish


Marriages Sep 1841 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ALLEN Frances Chichester 7 351
IRISH Charles Chichester 7 351
Locke Mary Ann Wittman Chichesrer 7 351
McFEE Jane Chichester 7 351
McINTOSH Hugh Chichester 7 351
Pannell William Henry Chichester 7 351

Lavant Home;

Head: is a Matron .... Matron of Lavant Home

Governess .... Governess (School)

Appears to be a girl's only Home or School.

The children are referred to as Students

Gillian, I am not sure you noticed my post in amongst all the other census info etc.

Have you tried the GRO REGIMENTAL BIRTH INDICES and the GRO ARMY BIRTH INDICES which are separate from the standard GRO indices? Just thinking that this may help if her father was a soldier?

They are accessible on Find My Past, but I can't look them up for you as I only have access to the 1911 census not the other FMP records, someone else may be able to help, or you could pay to look, there are 5 index pages to look at and they are 1 credit each, I think you can do pay as you go on FMP.

EDIT just checked Pay as You Go on FMP and £6.95 gives you 60 credits which last for 90 days.

Helen

Interesting - IF this is Fanny's husband.......................

Deaths Sep 1852 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

IRISH Charles Chichester 2b 182


I wonder who fathered all the children after 1852?

CHARLES IRISH

Christening: 12 MAR 1843 Saint Andrew, Chichester, Sussex, England

Father: CHARLES IRISH
Mother: FRANCES

Helen & Freewheel /all

I just wanted to thank you - so much - for your help and to let you know that I really do appreciate it.

I have been a bit 'over-excited' to find out more about Jessie Lena Irish as my in-laws are coming at Xmas and my Jessie is my father in law's mother.
I am trying to find out about her early year background - hence a real urgency to find out about the Lavant home. ( still not totally sure - but guess that it was a girls school of some sort ) - would be nice if I could find out exactly.

Rosa Lillian Irish was also at Lavant 10 yrs earlier than Jessie -in 1891.
Rosa was a witness at Jesies wedding in 1915 to Reginald Quick in Wandsworth. Rosa, by then had married a Mr Dudman.

But - I still dont know what the relationship is between Rosa & Jessie - ie aunt / neice/ cousin / sister etc......I would like to find that out if pos.

Also, Jessie's parents - in particular her father - I know that he was a soldier, called John Irish - who died before her marriage in 1915.

We have discovered a Jessie Irish - supposidly born 1887 in Notting Hill with her mother Kate - I am not convinced that this is the correct Jessie.
If I could find a birth record for Jessie to confirm 1890 & the location- that would be great.......

any other info relating to the above people would also be wonderful as I am aiming to give my father in law a 'mini family tree' at Xmas ( I already have the 'Quick' family info ( Jessies husbands side)

Once again
Thank you all so much for helping me.........
Gill

National Archives show that West Sussex R O in Chichester hold a lot of papers relating to Lavant Home. It was leased by the Guardians of the Poor of Chichester as a childrens home. Closed in 1935

1841 image is IRISH

Name: Charles Mish
Age: 55
Estimated birth year: abt 1786
Gender: Male
Where born: Sussex, England

Civil parish: Boxgrove
Hundred: Box and Stockbridge
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Westhampnett
Sub-registration district: Boxgrove
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Mish 55
Hannah Mish 55
William Mish 20
John Mish 20
Henry Mish 15

Can't, however, see Charles who married Fanny

Please, Gillian, don't get 'hung up' on Jessie's birth date and father's name - they have both yet to be proven....................

Julie - thank you for finding out about Lavant Home.
"It was leased by the Guardians of the Poor of Chichester as a childrens home. Closed in 1935" - that is excellent news to find out that t was a childrens home. - explains other things for me.

Freewheel - I know - thank you or being so patient with me.
I know that the birth date given on the death record is correct however - as the birth was registered by my mother in law - Jessies daughter in law.

I also know from Jessies marriage cert that her father was deceased and had been a soldier. - It also listed his name as John Irish.

So the date of birth for Jessie and her fathers info, at this moment in time, I HAVE to take as being correct.......

I have discovered that Jessies dad - John Irish was at a Barracks
( Raglan) aged 21 - in Devonport 1881 census.

I know that Jessie married a Reginald Quick in Wandsworth in 1915 - Reg was from Dorset and he was a gardener.
I know that Rosa Dudman nee Irish was a witness at their wedding.

Who is Rosa Irish to Jessie?
Where was Jessie born?
Who excatly were Jessies parents? what were both their occupations?
Did Jessi have any siblings?

Again - I cant thank everyone enough for heir help
Gill

Gillian, I must say I totally agree with Freewheel.

I assume the only "evidence" you have of John Irish being Jessie's father, being a soldier and being dead before 1915 is the information on the marriage entry.

Just because something is on a marriage entry / cert does not mean it is true. To avoid the stigma of illegitimacy (for example) or just to "hide" unsavoury relations people would often lie about their father's names, occupations and whether or not they were still living. None of this had to be proved. People have also been known to lie about their age (or just not to know how old they were).

Helen

Hi Helen

I know that you are absolutely correct...... I have got a bit 'carried away' at times....

I am assuming that the info given at the time of Jessies marriage is correct.

However, I also have this . so I beleive that the ' my dad is John Irish - a soldier/' is the truth - (and I cant see any reason to lie about hom being dead) so I assume that he died before 1915 ( possibly in the war) :
1881 England Census
about John Irish
Name: John Irish Age: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1860 Gender: Male
Where born: Chichester, Sussex, England

Civil parish: Stoke Damerel County/Island: Devon Country: England
Street Address: "The Raglan Barracks" St Aubyn Devonport
Occupation: Private
Registration district: Stoke Damerel
Sub-registration district: St Aubyn
ED, institution, or vessel: The Raglan Barracks

I dont have Ancestry, Im afraid - so I have looked where I can, but am still looking ( and needing help ) for the following:

Who is Rosa Irish to Jessie?
Where was Jessie born?
Who excatly were Jessies parents? what were both their occupations?
Did Jessie have any siblings?

If you had the inclination at some point, it might be interesting to send for the birth details for the John Irish mentioned in the 1891 census … with mother, Kate and sister, Jessie.

Births Jun 1882
Irish John Chichester 2b 418

This certificate would give parents names and it might turn out to be the father is John Irish with the occupation Soldier.

Find it odd that a birth for Jessie Irish can’t be found … could it be she was registered under another name (by another father) but grew up thinking her name was Jessie Irish … matching in with her mother and brother.

Either that or as has already been mentioned. Jessie was born outside the UK while her father was on army duties.

If you look to when Rose Lilian Irish married Arthur William Dudman in
1895 !!!,,,,,,there is a large age gap between her and Jessie......

Jessie wasnt born in Scotland......