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I'm trying to find details of my Grandad Andrew Kirk's family. It states on my aunt Christina's birth certificate that Andrew was a miner in Kirkcaldy in 1915. The certificate also says he was a Private (no 1154) in the National Reserve.

Any information will be gratefully received.

Christina's birth certificate will give you the date and place of her parents' marriage. You can then purchase the certificate online (assuming that the marriage was in Scotland) at http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk - credits cost £6 for 30, 1 credit to view search results and 5 to view the certificate.

When you have this if you need census lookups, post the details here and someone will oblige.

Are you looking for Andrew's parents and siblings or descendants of his siblings please?

Hi Rootgatherer

Unfortunately Grandad Andrew never married Christina's mother, Lucy Mooney, widow of John Cox, with whom he had 3 children I'm trying to find Andrew's parents, year of birth, siblings - anything really. He seems to have appeared in 1913 and I pretty much know where he was until he died in the 1950's but have absolutely nothing before 1913.

Any help or tips you can give will be much appreciated.

Jak

Unfortunately Andrew died in Huddersfield, England, so no luck there.

He died on the 20th March 1959, aged 82, so must have been born 1877 in Scotland.

What were the names of his other 2 children, you've said 1 was Christina? Sometime there is the chance that the Scottish naming pattern was used and this can help identify possible parents.


There is this one who is a Coal miner but the year of birth is a bit out.

Name: Andrew Kirk
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1880
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Maggie
Gender: Male
Where born: Dunfermline, Fife
Registration Number: 405
Registration district: Auchterderran
Civil parish: Auchterderran
County: Fife
Address: 20 Minto Street
Occupation: Coal Miner (brushen)
ED: 6
Household schedule number: 192
Line: 8
Roll: CSSCT1901_129
Household Members: Name Age
Andrew Kirk 21
Maggie Kirk 26
Maggie Kirk 9
Agne Kirk 5
Andrew Kirk 3
Christian Kirk 1
Andrew Paterson 19



Of course, we don't know that he was born in Fife, do we?

This is definitely him from the info you have given
Ancestry has this military record on his move from National Reserve to National Defence Corp
Andrew Kirk born 9/12/1873 Leslie Fife
Fathers name George
Mothers name Christina
Wife deceased
Housekeeper Lucy Mooney
Date and place of Marriage 31/12/1887 Leslie
Christian names of children
Thomas (deceased)
George
Leonard
Lily
John
Lydia
Christina
Catherine
Nature of civilian occupation -Miner
Reg No 3847
Address Mutton Hall cottages Kirkaldy

Well done Gillian.

I had a look on the mitlitary records on ancestry earlier and must have missed him.

What a great find!!

1891 78 High St Leslie
George Kirk 36 Butcher
Christina 37 wife (nee Fisher)
George 17 son goods Porter
Andrew 14 son Yarn bleacher
David 11
Maggie 6
Archibald 3
Christina 1 all born Leslie except mother Christina b Aucterderran

Same family in 1901 - and look Andrew's granny, born around 1803, is there!!

Name: Christina Kirk
[Christina Fisher]
Age: 46
Estimated birth year: abt 1855
Relationship: Wife
Spouse's name : George
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Female
Where born: Auchterderran, Fifeshire
Registration Number: 444
Registration district: Leslie
Civil parish: Leslie
Town: Leslie
County: Fife
Address: High Street
ED: 1
Household schedule number: 39
Line: 20
Roll: CSSCT1901_143
Household Members: Name Age
George Kirk 46
Christina Kirk 46
Maggie Kirk 16
Archibald Kirk 13
Christina Kirk 10
William Kirk 8
George Kirk 3
Ann Fisher 98 Mother-in-law

There are a couple of oddities about that military record
If he was born in 1873 as stated, was he really married in 1887?I believe it may have been legal to marry at that age but likely?
And he is shown 1881 and 1891 as born 1877
And if he was married 1887 why is he withparents 1881 and 1891
We need someone with Scotlands people sub to get to the bottom of this one

The military record also contains details of a medical exam for indigestion (!) which contain details you may not want posted on this board but which I can send in a pm if you want -but also says he was discharged from the police "over 20 years ago" (the exam was in Aug 1917) with stomach trouble. If so, it must have been a very brief service in the police in the 1890s as he is a Yarn Bleacher in 1891 and a Shepherd in 1901

Gillian

You are fantastic!!! I'm struggling to 'get my head' round all this info but this is definitely my grandad, as the address is as my mum's birth certificate and most of the siblings names match the ones I have. From what year did you get the info that Lucy Mooney was hAndreew's housekeeper? Lucy married John Cox in November 1897 and had a number of children to him, before he died in about 1911. Then from 1913 had three children with Andrew all at the Muttonhall Cottages address.

I'm so excited at all this, I can't thank you enough.

18/8/1917 is the date of the declaration containing the ref to Lucy Mooney

Forgot I had some spare credits left over from my own family research so have now found the marriage which was in 1897 not 1887 as stated in the military record AND his comment about the police is borne out!

Andrew Kirk married Christina Whyte 31/12/1897 in Leslie
He is described as Police Constable and Bachelor aged 20 of 5 Ferrier St Leith * son of George Kirk (Butcher) and Christina Kirk nee Fisher

Christina is 23 Linen factory worker of Cross Wynd Falkland daughter of George Whyte (Mason) and Mary Whyte Nee Ray or Roy (difficult toread)

Witnesses are William Whyte and Maggie Kirk

*Isnt there a saying abouth "The Leith Police....."?

There is a Oneworld tree on Ancestry.co.uk with Christina Whyte on it.
Birth 24 December 1874
Father George White
Mother Mary Roy

George's parents are given as James Whyte and Christina Watson as follows

James Whyte
Born: 22 May 1814
Collessie Parish, [parish], Fife, Scotland


Family Groups
Spouse
James Whyte
Born: 22 May 1814 in Collessie Parish, [parish], Fife, Scotland
Died:
Marriage: 5 Jun 1835 in Falkland Parish, [parish], Fife, Scotland View Info
Children Sex Birth
Jean Whyte F
Andrew White M
John Whyte M abt 1839 in Falkland, [country]
David Whyte M 1845 in Falkland Parish, [parish], Fife, Scotland
George White M 1850 in Falkland Parish, [parish], Fife, Scotland


Christina Watson
Born: 1889
Lamington, [parish], Lanarkshire, Scotland
Died: 11 Jan 1888
Falkland, [parish], Fife, Scotland



There are several more generation so it may be worth your while taking a 14 day free trial for ancestry just to see it!

Just in the passing - I don't see Lucy on any of the census either as Mooney or Cox.

Lucy Mooney appears 1891 as 13 year old pupil at Girls Industrial School in Maryhill Glasgow (think they were part of the Workhouse system)

In 1881 she is 5 , daughter of Thomas and Lucy of 13 Anderson St Glasgow

1881 Census

Name: George Kirk
Age: 27
Estimated birth year: abt 1854
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Christina
Gender: Male
Where born: Leslie, Fifeshire
Registration Number: 444
Registration district: Leslie
Civil parish: Leslie
Town: Leslie
County: Fife
Address: High Street
Occupation: Flesher
ED: 1
Household schedule number: 59
Line: 21
Roll: cssct1881_123
Household Members: Name Age
George Kirk 27
Christina Kirk 28
George Kirk 7
Andrew Kirk 4
David Kirk 1

Source Citation: Parish: Leslie; ED: 1; Page: 10; Line: 21; Roll cssct1881_123; Year: 1881.



1861 Census


Name: Christian Fisher
Age: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1853
Relationship: Daughter
Father's Name: George
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Female
Where born: Auchterderran, Fifeshire
Registration Number: 405
Registration district: Auchterderran
Civil parish: Auchterderran
County: Fife
Address: Capledrae Collings
Occupation: Scholar
ED: 1
Household schedule number: 85
Line: 6
Roll: CSSCT1861_53
Household Members: Name Age
George Fisher 44 Coal Miner b. Portmoak, KinrossShire
Ann Fisher 47 b. Orwell, Kinross Shire
Mary Fisher 19 Field Labourer b. Portmoak
David Fisher 18 Coal Miner, b Portmoak
John Fisher 16 Coal Miner b. Portmoak
Jane Fisher 10 b. Auchterderran
Christian Fisher 8

Source Citation: Parish: Auchterderran; ED: 1; Page: 16; Line: 5; Roll CSSCT1861_53; Year: 1861.

1851

Name: George Fisher
Age: 33
Estimated birth year: abt 1818
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name: Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Portmoak, Kinrosssh
Parish Number: 405
Civil parish: Auchterderran
County: Fife
Address: Capledrae Colliery
Occupation: Coal Miner
ED: 4
Page: 19 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 74
Line: 12
Roll: CSSCT1851_84
Household Members: Name Age
George Fisher 33
Ann Fisher 35
Mary Fisher 9
David Fisher 7
John Fisher 6
Jean Fisher 3 Mo

Source Citation: Parish: Auchterderran; ED: 4; Page: 12; Line: 19; Roll 904; Year: 1851.

1841

Name: George Fisher
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1816
Gender: Male
Where born: Kinross, Scotland

Civil parish: Portmoak
County: Kinross
Address: Scotlandwell
Occupation: Cotton H L W
Parish Number: 464
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
George Fisher 25
Ann Fisher 25
James Fisher 1

Source Citation: Parish: Portmoak; ED: 3; Page: 4; Line: 1000; Roll CSSCT1841_64-0337; Year: 1841.

1871

Name: George Fisher
Age: 54
Estimated birth year: abt 1817
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Portmoak, Kinrossshire
Registration Number: 444
Registration district: Leslie
Civil parish: Leslie
County: Fife
Address: Walkerton
Occupation: Night Watchman
ED: 7
Household schedule number: 84
Line: 15
Roll: CSSCT1871_77
Household Members: Name Age
George Fisher 54
Ann Fisher 56
Mary Clarks 28 daughter, Bleacher
Chris Fisher 17 daughter, Bleacher
Ann Clark 3 b. Leslie, Granddaughter
Agnes Clark 1 b. Leslie, Graddaughter
Cecilia Clark 13 b. Portmoak, Millworker, Lodger

Something doesn't add up somehow. I have it that Lucy had 9 children that I can find, the first was illegitimate, the next 5 were to John Cox who she married in 1897, the 6th carried all three surnames so it's anyones guess and the last 2 were to Andrew Kirk. John Cox is supposed to have died c1911.

I got this information when I booked an assisted search at the records office in Edinburgh, I was also told that Andrew was born in Newtown, Leslie. Perhaps I've been having such difficulty because I've been going down the wrong track.

I can feel a subscription to Ancestry coming on! Still thanking you all for your help.