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Right. Here goes folks. I will try to work back to Louisa Brown.......may take a while!!!!!!!!

Ada Mary Frances Forster b1895 -d1983. Her father was William Ernest Forster :


Ada Mary Frances Forster
Age: 18
Estimated birth year: abt 1896
Spouse Name: Leonard Charles Browning
Spouse Age: 20
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 8 Feb 1914
Parish: St John the Evangelist, Walworth
County: Middlesex
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: William Ernest Forster

William Ernest Forster was baptised 1875 Southwark to parents William Walter Forster and Louisa Elizabeth Brown

William Ernest Forster
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 5 Sep 1875
Father's Name: William Walter Forster
Mother's Name: Louisa Elizabeth Forster
Parish: St Saviour
Borough: Southwark
County: Middlesex

So this is where I am stuck..................am ok tracing back the Forster line but am at a dead end with Louisa!!!!!! I can trace Louisa, as mentioned before, AFTER her marriage ......but I am unable to find her BEFORE her marriage.....or her baptism.

Louisa Brown
Spouse Name: William Forster
Spouse Age: Full Age
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 22 Jun 1874
Parish: St John the Evangelist, Brixton
County: Middlesex
Borough: Lambeth
Father Name: James Brown
Spouse Father Name: John Forster


(Louisa and William Walter Forster had several children: Arthur John Forster, William Ernest Forster 1875, Herbert George Forster c1879, Frederick James Forster c1890, Edith Louise Forster c1894)

Stephen I have spent several hours looking and have come up with no definite results.

I usually find when that happens it is a good idea to take a step backwards to see if we might come up with more definite info.
Could you post a bit more about how you got to her and definite facts you know about the family.

If you can figure out those 1871 grandparents' surname, let me know! Oh, I see -- too young to be parents of Maria, for instance. Sigh.

Question was for Stephen.

I was wondering if the children with the grandparents in 1871 could be James and Maria's? But ages do not work. Mind you relationships are not always accurate.

Maybe need to find some baptisms.

Me? ;)

James and Maria are the ones I meant, I think - ?

1861 census, he's a printer.

I was thinking they were too old to have a daughter born in 1851, but I guess not. But there's no Louisa in evidence.

And James and maria?

Keep remembering that the father's name on a marriage certificate can mean all sorts of things.

I wonder whether that printer James Brown born 1805ish might have had an unmarried daughter who had a daughter Louise?

Naming a maternal grandfather as father on marriage, in those circumstances, was by no means unheard of.

In a situation like that, it's also possible a child was registered in the father's surname, but then went by the mother's surname all their life.

my only concern with being called Elizabeth is that on her marriage, childrens baptisms and every census that we can find her she is under the name Louisa, never once is it Elizabeth

1871 census - household transcription
Person: BROWN, James
Address: Commercial Rd, Lambeth
BROWN, James Head M 67 1804 Essex VIEW
BROWN, Maria Wife F 59 1812 Middlesex

interesting

1861 census - household transcription
Person: BROWN, James
Address: 40, Commercial Road, Lambeth, Marsh And Wall North Ward

BROWN, James Head Married M 55 1806 Printers...
Halstead
Essex VIEW
BROWN, Maria Wife Married F 46 1815
Stoke Newington
Middlesex VIEW
BROWN, Maria Daughter Unmarried F 20 1841 Laundress
Bow
Middlesex VIEW
UNWIN, Edward Lodger Married M 25 1836 Printer
City VIEW
COOPER, Thomas Lodger Unmarried M 24 1837 Printer
...
Suffolk

If her middle name is Elizabeth she may have been recorded as that.

1871 census - household transcription
Person: BROWN, Elizabeth
Address: Lyndhurst Road, West Side, St Giles
BROWN, James Head M 28 1843 Pembrokeshire VIEW
BROWN, Ada Wife F 25 1846 London VIEW
BROWN, Annie Daughter F 3 1868 London VIEW
BROWN, Alfred Son M 1 1870 London VIEW
BROWN, Elizabeth Servant F 19 1852 London

Father is a clerk.

I went to Google maps and had a look afterward -- it's not exactly a "lane", is it! It's a major thoroughfare, so it wouldn't be surprising to find two sets of Browns living on it ... or possibly, in Louisa's case, a Ms Brown who was a servant in a household there ...

And yes only one Coldharbour Lane.

I know it well.

Thanks for carrying on with this JC.

Home PC is very sick.

Quick lunch peek in.

I'd be a little curious about this one in 1861.

Name: Louisa Brown
Age: 10
Estimated birth year: abt 1851
Relation: Granddaughter
Where born: Southwark, Surrey, England

Civil parish: Southwark St Saviour

Thomas Jenyns 52
Ann Jenyns 40
Emma Jenyns 18
Louisa Brown 10
Eleanor Brown 7
John Brown 8


The 3 grchildren are all shown as born in Southwark, but in 1871 Eleanor (the likeliest candidate for her) is shown as born in Camberwell:

Name: Eleanor Brown
Age: 17
Estimated birth year: abt 1854
Where born: Camberwell, Surrey, England

Civil parish: Sutton
County/Island: Surrey
ED, institution, or vessel: South Metropoliton District Schools
- she's a teacher

looks like that family is wrong as well then!! aaaaahhhhhhhh

Hmm, this is your 1871 household in 1861 in Beckenham, Kent -- birthplaces match:

Wm Brown 44 - Labourer
Sarah Brown 38 - born Chingford, Essex
Robt Brown 15
Jessie Brown 5
N H Brown 1 - W H, undoubtedly (image is unclear) -- William H in 1871, born Beckenham
Emma Lowe 7 - niece

No Louisa, but a Jessie??

Still trying to trace the address ...

In 1871 it seems to have been called Chichester Terrace. Two of the families who were neighbours on Coldharbour Lane in 1881 (William Banning/Bauning 148, Henry Lander 146) are in the same position on Chichester Terrace(16, 17) in 1871. Oh, and also David Hawkins (142, 19).

This is a very stable and very prosperous bunch of neighbours, btw. Commercial clerk, Landscape artist/Barrister's clerk, etc.

I can't imagine there being a different Coldharbour Lane in the same area.

I am really struggling to read the writing of the witnesses.......maybe Jemima Baker and George Thomas ?????.........it is on ancestry records if anyone can read it!!!

No number on cert. just says cold harbour lane

Still think I am onto something with the 1871 census - mother sarah

The 1881 is searchable by address; searching for Brown, address Coldharbour (Louisa's address when she married):

Name: Elizabeth Brown
Age: 76
Estimated birth year: abt 1805
Relation: Sister
Where born: Nennham, Gloucestershire, England

Condition as to marriage: Widower

Civil parish: Lambeth
County/Island: London
Street Address: 138 Coldharbour Lane

Ann Todd 66
Elizabeth Brown 76
Sarah J. Francis 18 (servant)

Name: Ann Todd
Age: 66
Estimated birth year: abt 1815
Relation: Head
Where born: Nennham, Gloucestershire, England


Possibly coincidence, possibly useful. Does the marriage certificate have a house number on Coldharbour Lane?


That household in 1871 -- address 19 Burton Rd, Lambeth.

Ann Todd 56
Elizabeth Brown 66
Elizabeth H Morse 20 - niece
Ann Brown 35 - niece
Eliza S E Chappell 50 (servant)


In 1861 they're in Camberwell (kind of mirrors Louisa's birthplace):

William Todd 70
Ann Todd 46
Elizabeth Brown 56
Elizabeth Brown 27
Helen Brown 17
Elizath Henla Morse 10
Sarah Smith 24
James Nash 52


Just to complete the set, in 1851 they're in Herefordshire:

Thomas Brown 35
Elizabeth Brown 46
William Henry Brown 19
Ann Brown 15
Caroline Brown 13
Matilda Brown 11
Maria Brown 9
Helen Brown 7
John Morse 14
Georgianna Heard 39


Could be related, but not immediate family, it seems.