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Oh Vivienne you are star!
I really do appreciate all the effort you are putting in for me. That sounds a great idea to look at the ER, that should definitely throw some light of who was living at the address in 1940. The deaths for Fred Cooper could be possible, Maybe he was older than I thought.
I think the next cert I will get is Annie Smith's birth cert. Janey had recommended me to get the marriage cert (Smith- Bullimore) and a birth cert for a Dorothy who was born in 1914. Janey had suspected that this child was Annie Smith's too and then died shortly after. I am quite curious about this but I think to save money and try and go further back and found out who Annie's mother was, it would be better to get her birth cert - What do you think Vivienne?
Why do you think the family are missing from the 1901 census? It seems strange that the family were born there and where there in 1911. But the mystery is what happend between then.
Have you been successful tracing your family history Vivienne?

I will place any likely deaths found for Fred here.....

1}}dec q 1943 fred cooper age 73 wharfedale 9a 228

2))dec q 1945 Frederick cooper age 67 bradford 9b 140

Done 1940 through 1950

More ideas for fred cooper trace?

Wills
Wills proved from 12 January 1858 to the present day are held only by the Court of Probate. You can access them and buy copies at the Probate Search Room, First Avenue House, 42-49 High Holborn, London WC1V 6NP (tel: 020 7947 7022). You can also order copies by post. The address for requests by post is York Probate Sub-Registry, First Floor, Castle Chambers, Clifford Street, York, YO1 7EA. The same applies to letters of administration, which are granted if no valid will was made or found.


I have started searching deaths from 1940 for him,concentrating on Bradford reg area.

The Constance Cooper on 1911 married in 1929,so prob not her,but give Louise/a a try.
The other one to try for is Fred Cooper after 1940?
Prob under a Bradford reg?
I was thinking that after I went off last night.

Also how about ER rolls for 1940?
If they were done during the war? then they would be at the local library to the address you have,they can only search them by address ,but you have one!
Also you can try for newspaper reports of an accident for the Aunt?
Also at the same library I would have thought?

A big thank you Vivienne for all your research. It doesn't look like any of the people at the two addresses are connected, but it was worth a try. I was trying to guess the age of Fred on the marriage photo I have of my Grandmother, but it is difficult as it is a Sepia print. i would put him at late 40s early 50s in 1940, so DOB would be around 1885 -1890, so it could be possible. The name Amelia rings a bell, but I'm not sure whether it's because I may have seen that one too. I believe my grandmother's auntie died in an accident when my grandmother was 21 or 22 before she got married. Maybe I could search for a death of Constance Cooper or Louise Cooper, that might throw some light, it would be around 1938.

More 1911 Cooper offerings...

Amelia(mother) Hubby not at home tonight.(1855
Louise<<<Weaver Of Worsted Coatings(1879
Fred ,<<Passer Of Cloth Dress Goods(1883
Arthur<<chauffer(1887

Just in case you are interested...

1911 for

Address:
14 Cemetery Road York

CLARK, William Head Married M 31 1880 Insurance Agent Bishophill Parish Yorks
CLARK, Annie Wife Married F 27 1884 House Duties City of London
CLARK, John Son M 7 1904 St Pauls Parish York
CLARK, Bernard James Son M 5 1906 Ct Clements Parish York CLARK, Annie Daughter F 2 1909
********************************************************

And..

Address:
18 Glenholme Road Bradford


VERITIY, Caroline Head Single F 38 1873 Servent Manningham
VERITY, Sarah Jane Daughter Single F 37 1874 Cloth Weaver Manningham Bradford
VERITY, Florence Daughter Single F 32 1879 Cloth Weaver Manningha Bradford

Hello there Vivienne, nice to hear from you again. Yes I have seen this one too, but I didn't get a feeling about it, as the name Constance does not ring any bells as I'm sure I would know the name if I saw it. Also my Grandmother had quite a decent up- bringing (She was sent for elocution lessons as a girl). Would a Charwoman be able to afford this? May be it was a combined effort by all the family. As far as my grandmother was aware, there was only her father, uncle Fred and her auntie, but they may have been others. I only have an address in 1940 (Baildon).

One marriage....?

Marriages Sep 1926 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cooper Constance E Lockwood Wharfedale 9a 299
Lockwood Royston Cooper Wharfedale 9a 299

1911
The only likely household in Wharfedale area with a Fred Cooper in with brothers ,sister and a widowed mother,who,s name happens to be Mary,as in Dorothy Mary?

COOPER, Mary M Head Widow F 46 1865 Charwoman Territional Drill Hall Winterton Lincs VIEW
COOPER, Walter T Son Single M 20 1891 Hawker Ilkley Yorks VIEW
COOPER, Fred Son Single M 17 1894 Apprentice Ilkley Yorks VIEW
COOPER, Harry Son Single M 15 1896 Errand - Boy Ilkley Yorks VIEW
COOPER, Arthur Son M 12 1899 School Ilkley Yorks VIEW
COOPER, Albert Son M 9 1902 Ilkley Yorks VIEW
COOPER, Constance E Daughter F 7 1904 Ilkley Yorks VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
26019 Reference:
RG14PN26019 RG78PN1505 RD491 SD4 ED3 SN83

Registration District:
Wharfedale Sub District:
Ilkley EnumerationDistrict:
3 Parish:
Ilkley

Address:
6 Castle Yard Ilkley

Haven't been on for a while, but I'm still keen to find out about the elusive Annie Smith and the Coopers!!! Does anyone have any idea why a family might be missing from the 1901 census? The family are on the 1911 in the same area as the place they were born in Sheffield. So I can't understand why a young family would be missing from the census. Also is it possible to search an address on the 1911 census to see who might have lived there, as I don't have much to go on on the Cooper side apart from an uncle fred and an address in 1940. They probably didn't live there in 1911, but I could search anyway if it is possible. the last dilemma is; should I get Annie Smith's birth certificate or should I get her marriage certificate to Bullimore? I know researching your family tree is a costly business and I am hoping that one of my lovely family is going to pay for my subscription to Ancestry co.uk., as it would seem it is a better place to research.

Raspberrys to you Janey;)

Im going while the going is good...

~~~~~

Oooh yes! Ancestry, the great god and great satan of genealogy. You might want to take opinions about FindMyPast, too; I'm not familiar with it, but it does have some things Ancestry doesn't have, although they're a little esoteric, like military births. And you can always ask Viv for things there. ;)

I paid for the Gold membership. Is Ancestry.co.uk better?

1881 census is copyright to the Mormons. You can search it completely free at Ancestry.co.uk

http://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/rectype/census/uk/default.aspx

The census you see at this site isn't actually its own, it sends you off somewhere else anyway. You aren't actually paying for this place's records, are you?? Never. Let that expire and sub thee to Ancestry.

Thanks Yvonne for your efforts. I've found another marriage that maybe possible in 1894 9C 566. I'm fed up tonight as I haven't had any luck trying to find any of them (Annie and Co) on the 1901 census. I can only find Alfred on the 1891 census living with others that don't look like family and occupation as a dressmaker apprentice! It might not be him but it is the right area and his age and there was only two to choose from. Why is there no 1881 census on GR?

Shot inthe dark....

Alfred Smith marriage to Annie Elizabeth Platts 1889 Ecclesall Bierlow, County Derbyshire, West Riding...well...that's what it says...9C 409.

Death for Annie Elizabeth Smith Ecclesall Bierlow 1894 Q4 9C 170 -21YEARS OLD

Could it be that Annie Elizas Mum 'Annie Elizabeth' died in child birth. This would mean though that Alfred had 3 wives minimum in total.

Thanks Yvonne, it seems the more you delve into your family's history the more complicated it can get, I should've known that Annie would be complicated - she was just that in real life by all accounts.
Thanks Yvonne for your e-mail with the image of 1911 census, I just hope I can unravel some more to go back further and my grandmother's father's side the Coopers!!!! Well at least finding out about Emsley my great grandfather was more of a success with thanks to you Yvonne.

Janey - it would seem you have found some weird and wonderful things in your ancestry, I hope I can too, but I realise I will have to spend some more money on certifcates to be sure.

I take Yvonne's view! I can't look at the full 1911 record, but that all makes perfect sense to me.


Btw, looking back at page 4 to follow it through, I noticed that I'd said "Ernest & Annie", and not even noticed. It must be in the names. My gr-grparents Ernest & Annie are my mysterious couple. ;)

Well, Annie's a straight arrow (and her brother's great-granddaughter's husband is an active member here, where I 'met' him!). But old Ernest ... anybody who knows me here knows my Ernest, the man who taught me everything I know about family history research ... although I was born 15 years after he died ... died under his fake name ... which his family never knew was fake ... but as undoubtedly fully explained in the papers in the locked case he carried around with him his entire life ... which I found out about last year, at the same time as I found out his daughter-in-law promptly burned it all upon his death ...

Blast them all, eh?!

My view...
The older children are Alfreds from a previous marriage. He married Annie Rose Brittlebank in 1905 Q1 9c 623. In Sheffield. Doris must be her sisters child & Charles her husbands child from his previous marriage. They are only cousins through marriage i believe.
I've noticed on the cencus forms a lot of confusion when filling in details of living children. So many have been crossed out & re written. I think Alfred has quoted the children from his view. In some cases it refers to the woman only.
Hope this is of some help..