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Hi Julie

Sorry for tardy response, I've been trying to get into the Community to find out if I had any replies and it kept of coming up with errors. Thanks Cynthia for the prompt.

Had no idea that his middle name was Henry, as I haven't any middle names for any of the children. Only that David's father was William J Thomas.

I have David's death date as 30/03/1918.

Not sure if this is the same person? How do I confirm this?

Wanted to say thank you Julie for your time and efforts. I really appreciate it.

Bron

Can you say where you "have" that date of death *from*?

These are the only Australian David Thomas entries at the CWGC site:

http://www.cwgc.org/debt_of_honour.asp?menuid=14


THOMAS , DAVID Private 1977 14/03/1917 28 Australian Infantry, A.I.F. Australian III. D. 9. GUARDS' CEMETERY, LESBOEUFS

THOMAS , DAVID HENRY Private 2812 12/08/1916 37 Australian Infantry, A.I.F. Australian VIII. B. 131. BOULOGNE EASTERN CEMETERY

THOMAS , DAVID JOHN Private 561 01/06/1917 34 Australian Infantry, A.I.F. Australian II. D. 9. STRAND MILITARY CEMETERY

THOMAS , DAVID JOHN Sapper 6995 30/05/1918 23 Australian Engineers Australian I. D. 11. BORRE BRITISH CEMETERY


The 1916 death is the only one that matches the personal details.

There has been a mix-up with facts somewhere.

Margaret may have been born in England but the rest are all registered in Victoria. Reg numbers in ( )

John Llewelyn b. 1865 (2635) d. 1934 Ararat
Jemima b. 1867 (8535) d. 1923 Malvern E
Mary Jane b. 1869 (22678) d. 1930
Thomas Lavis (Lewis) b. 1872 (23668)
Sarah Anne b. 1874 (16336)
Evan b. 1877 (22744) d. 1 day 1877
William Eleazer b. 1877 (22747) d. 1949
David Lewis b. 1880 (16275)

So none of the WW2 deaths fit this David.
So I have deleted that info.

Jemima Thomas b. 1867 d. 1923
m. 1889, Henry LOUDEN ?? d. 1936

Children...
Clarice Mary Lillian b. 1890 Ballarat, d. 1970 Melbourne
William Thomas b. 1892 Ball. d. 1961, 69yrs Caul(field)
Andrew Anderson b. 1895 d. 1918
Annie Victoria b. 1897
David Lansley b. 1900 d. 1941 Bendigo
Victor Hedley b. 1903 d. 1972, 69yrs, Rose(bud ?)
Elizabeth Una b. 1906
Horace Lewis b. 1909 d. 1985 75yrs, Tawo. ??


William Thomas b. 1892 Ball. d. 1961, 69yrs Caul(field)
m. 1911, Frances Florence WATES

children...
Muriel Clarice b. 1913
Harold Gordon b. 1914 d. 1915
Alfred William b. 1915 d. 1917
Lorna May b. 1917 d. 1966 Kew
Keith Dudley b. 1919
Ethel Irene b. 1920

Annie Victoria b. 1897
m. 1922 Bertie Henry ROPER

Victor Hedley b. 1903
M. 1940 Jessie Elizabeth SAVAGE

Horace Lewis b. 1909
m. 1937 Muriel Thelma Morton CLARK

WW1
Andrew Anderson Louden
Service number: 2131

Rank: Trooper [Tpr]

Unit: 1 Australian Battalion Imperial Camel Corps

Service: Army

Conflict: 1914-1918

Date of death: 10 April 1918

Cause of death: Killed in action

Cemetery or memorial details: PALESTINE 3 Jerusalem War Cemetery

War Grave Register notes: LOUDEN, Tpr. Andrew Anderson, 2131. 1st Australian Bn. Imperial Camel Corps. Killed in action 10th April, 1918. Age 23. Son of Henry and Jemima Louden, of Musellabeh, 40, Meredith St., St. Kilda, Victoria, Australia. Born at Ballarat, Victoria. H. 58.

Source: AWM145 Roll of Honour cards, 1914-1918 War, Army

WW2
Service Record
Name .. LOUDEN, KEITH DUDLEY
Service .. Australian Army
Service Number .. V36329
Date of Birth .. 9 Jul 1919
Place of Birth .. CASTERTON, VIC
Date of Enlistment .. 20 Sep 1940
Locality on Enlistment .. CASTERTON, VIC
Place of Enlistment .. CASTERTON, VIC
Next of Kin .. LOUDEN, WILLIAM
Date of Discharge .. Unknown
Rank .. Unknown
Posting at Discharge .. Unknown

Sarah Anne THOMAS b. 1874 , d. 1900 26yrs W'beal
m. 1899, Fred William COARE

Australian Electoral Rolls, 1901-1936
about John Llewelyn Thomas
Name: John Llewelyn Thomas
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1903 <<< 1909 <<< 1914 <<< 1919 <<< 1924
State: Victoria
District: Wimmera
Subdistrict: Warracknabeal
OCCUPATION .. Bootmaker
with Elizabeth

Australian Electoral Rolls, 1901-1936 about John Llewellyn Thomas
Name: John Llewellyn Thomas
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1931
State: Victoria
District: Corangamite
Subdistrict: Willaura
OCCUPATION .. Bootmaker
with Elizabeth
@ General Store, Maroona

Australian Electoral Rolls, 1901-1936 about Jemina Louden
Name: Jemina Louden
Gender: Female
Electoral Year: 1903
State: Victoria
District: Ballaarat
Subdistrict: Ballaarat West
OCCUPATION .. Home Duties (h/d)
ADDRESS .. 22(0) Skipton St., Ballarat
with Henry, Engine-driver

Name: Jemima Louden
Gender: Female
Electoral Year: 1909
State: Victoria
District: Ballaarat
Subdistrict: Sebastopol
OCCUPATION .. h/d
ADDRESS .. Yarrowee St., Sebastopol
with Henry, Engine-driver

Name: Jemima Louden
Gender: Female
Electoral Year: 1914
State: Victoria
District: Ballaarat
Subdistrict: Ballaarat West
OCCUPATION .. h/d
ADDRESS .. 504 Sebastopol St.
with Henry, Engine-driver
Clarice Mary Lillian, Music Teacher
& William Thomas, Grocer

Name: Jemima Louden
Gender: Female
Electoral Year: 1919
State: Victoria
District: Balaclava
Subdistrict: Orrong
OCCUPATION .. h/d
ADDRESS .. 504 Sebastopol St.
with Clarice Mary Lillian, h/d
& William Thomas, Traveller

Name: Jemima Louden
Gender: Female
Electoral Year: 1924
State: Victoria
District: Henty
Subdistrict: Malvern East
OCCUPATION .. h/d
ADDRESS .. 44 Tooronga Rd. Malvern E.
with Henry, Engine-driver
Clarice Mary Lillian, h/d

Australian Electoral Rolls, 1901-1936
about Henry Louden
Name: Henry Louden
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1931
State: Victoria
District: Balaclava
Subdistrict: Caulfield West
OCCUPATION .. Engine-driver
ADDRESS .. Mussellaber, Hertford St.
with Clarice Mary Lillian, h/d
David Lansley , State School Teacher
Victor Hedley , Teacher
Una Elizabeth, h/d
@ 6 Hertford St.
Horace Lewis , Sales.

Australian Electoral Rolls, 1901-1936 about William Thomas Louden
Name: William Thomas Louden
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1919
State: Victoria
District: Wannon
Subdistrict: Casterton
OCCUPATION .. Driver
ADDRESS .. Henty St., Casterton
with Frances Florence, h/d

Name: William Thomas Louden
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1924
State: Victoria
District: Wannon
Subdistrict: Casterton
OCCUPATION .. Driver
ADDRESS .. Jackson St., Casterton
with Frances Florence, h/d

Name: William Thomas Louden
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1931 <<< & 1936
State: Victoria
District: Wannon
Subdistrict: Casterton
OCCUPATION .. Driver
ADDRESS .. Murray St., Casterton
with Frances Florence, h/d

Australian Electoral Rolls, 1901-1936 about William Eleazer Thomas
Name: William Eleazer Thomas
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1936
State: Victoria
District: Balaclava
Subdistrict: Caulfield
ADDRESS .. 26 Venus St., Elsternwick
No Occupation
with Margaret, h/d

Australian Electoral Rolls, 1901-1936 about David Lewis Thomas
Name: David Lewis Thomas
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1903
State: Victoria
District: Ballaarat
Subdistrict: Ballaarat West
OCCUPATION .. Student
ADDRESS .. (52) Sebastopol St.
with William Jenkyn, Driver
Ann, h/d
Margaret, h/d

WOW!!!! This is awesome, thank you Julie & Janey, I'll just have to process all of the info but first so the family story goes. Ann nee Jones married William Thomas in Glamorgan had the first four children in Wales. William Thomas (father) died, and Ann came over to Australia with her four children as she had 2 sister and a brother over here (Australia) and she married another William Thomas but middle name started with a J (William J Thomas) and then they had the next four children: Sarah, William, Evan and David.

Now this is the confusing part. I didn't know any middle names until your first note, then I checked his war records and David Henry's brother was John and had a Sister Mary, mother Ann and William Thomas but one of the letters stated by John Edward Thomas that the parent had died both in 1920, which isn't the case of my David Thomas. So, maybe David Henry Thomas the WWI Vet who died in France isn't my relation and coincidental had very similar details. As I know Jemima married Louden and John Thomas married Elizabeth nee Smith and had two children William and Mavis. So which your second lot of info makes more sense.

How would I confirm this??

Great Job Julie, I'm very impressed thank you so much you have really helped me alot.

You also mention a Thomas Lewis b. 1872, so he must of died?? And I wonder why they were registered in Australia instead of Wales??

Bron

If you are wanting to buy certificates to verify the infomation go to...

https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=getHistIdxSearchCriteria

Thank me for nada. ;) (Although it was nice of you to do it!)

Julie's your go-to woman here. You are in capable hands!

But now you can thank me.

I wondered whether David hadn't served with an Australian unit.


Name: THOMAS
Initials: D L
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Second Lieutenant
Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers
Unit Text: 253rd Field Coy.
Age: 37
>>> Date of Death: 30/03/1918
>>> Additional information: Son of William and Ann Thomas, of Happy Valley, Victoria, Australia.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: II. H. 10.
Cemetery: ADELAIDE CEMETERY, VILLERS-BRETONNEUX


http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=26218

Hi Julie

Thanks for that. I totally agree with your info on the family but have came to a stand still and need to clarify, some info.

1. Why wasn't Margaret included in the registration as she is the eldest and the first four children were born in Wales, wouldn't they be registered in Wales?
2. I never knew about a Thomas Lewis, where was he born?

Please correct me if I'm wrong, the online birth info is just where they were registered and a copy of the cert has the exact location of birth?

Will have to buy a cert to clarify, as If I want to rewrite the family history I'll have to be correct.

Bron

OH Janey!!!! You are a clever girl! And so are you Julie. This is the piece that will be the cletcher. I'm a bit excited!!!! And I can rewrite history!!!

I LOVE YOU Janey! and you Julie!!!

I'm just beside myself. I'll have to write again when I've composed myself!

Yes, who's a clever girl, then. ;) You thanked me, I figured I should do something to earn it! (If only a few of our other members would read and learn the lesson ... but then, being rude sometimes also drives me to the extra effort, just as a way of saying nyah nyah.)

For birth registrations - they have to be registered where they occur. Barring impossibility of some sort - but certainly the births of children born in Wales would definitely not be registered in Australia. So they weren't born in Wales. ;)

Thomas Lewis may have died in infancy or childhood. The recycling of Lewis for David suggests maybe.

I also meant to mention - the reason you couldn't get in the other day was that this horrible, horrible website was on the fritz again, and anybody who did get a reply to a complaint (I sent 5 and have no replies so far) was told there had been no other complaints. Well, that works on the first complaint. It doesn't work when a bunch of people know for a fact that a bunch of other people have also complained!

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1172743

fyi. You'll want to change the .co.uk to .au.com I expect.

Now, if only I knew what history I had just rewritten ... ! Explain, if you like. ;)

And just for you, here's something hasn't occurred to me before.

The memorial pages at the Canadian Virtual War Memorial have more info than the CWGC pages do - they let you see a plot of where a grave is. Problem is, there are no direct links to the individual cemeteries; you have to go through an individual's page, for which you have to know a name. So I did a site search, found someone buried there, and clicked from his page to the cemetery link.

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/remembers/sub.cfm?source=search

http://www.virtualmemorial.gc.ca/cm_image/ACF1E3.gif

You can find II H there, but I don't know about the 10.

And then google images finds cemetery pics, and I think your fellow's grave would be about midway down on the left in this on (the picture is upside down from the plan):

http://www.ww1cemeteries.com/ww1frenchcemeteries/adelaide.htm

Ah, the same cemetery plan is there too. So now I've learned and will remember the easy way:

http://www.ww1cemeteries.com/

(My guy, my mum's father's eldest brother, unmarried, is in Etaples cemetery, and when my brother took her to France a couple of years ago -- I'd taken her to England a few years earlier -- they visited the grave.)

Bronwyn,

have found marriage for Ann Thomas to William Jenkins Thomas (b Wales, UK). they married 1873 in Victoria, Australia.

Children of this union were
John Llewelyn b 1865 Happy Valley, Victoria, Australia married Elizabeth Smith 1894
Jemima b 1867 married Henry Louden 1894
Mary Jane b 1869
Sarah Anne b 1874 married Frederick William Coare 1899
Evan b 1877 d 1877 aged 1 day
William Eleazar b 1877
David Lewis b 1880

That is all I have found at this point will keep looking for you and let you know what else I come up with.

Regards
Vanessa
Victoria, Australia