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Thanks mgnv, for the information. I looked up where the local LDS is and you are right there is one in Parramatta which is only a couple fo suburbs away.

I have tried using their downloads when I find information but I can't open them on my prehistoric computer and I have relied on one of the kids friends to convert them to a pdf file for me.

Kids are in exams at the moment so I don't want to hassle them. It has taken me a while to get the idea on how to use their website effectively and I getting there slowly with it. Terminology has also been a stumbling block of mind trying to understand the difference between Parish, County, registration district etc. it's all double dutch to me.

Gai

Thanks Cherilyn, I will see if I can find another living relative of the Rudd's and see how I go. Our current prime minister is Kevin Rudd, wouldn't it be funny if he is a distant relative.

I'm glad you found Elizabeth in Gosford and I hadn't even thought about looking outside the Sydney area. How stupid am I. The names on Jane's certificate for children are Agnes 67, Ada 60, Charles 58, William 56, Florence 48, Doloras R 43 living. Three males and Four females deceased so that makes a total of 13. But I bet the certificate is wrong.

I have just received a copy of William and Jane's marriage certificate which throws up more mysteries. According to the certificate Jane was 20 when she married William who's last name has the spelling of Craddick. Her fathers name is Richard not John with the occupation of a Makerup I think? Williams occupation is a Millwright with his fathers as a joiner.

One thing that has me confused is the lack of information on Williams transcript. Now if Dora rose was born in 1881, Florence in 1869 and William in 1871, you would have thought Jane would have been around when William died in 1887. It just doesn't make sense to me so maybe it is a trip to the cemetery and see if I can find a headstone. One thing it does say that he was a carpenter, so something was correct if that is any consolation.

I think I take the weekend off the family tree and come back on Monday ready for a new week.

Thanks Cherilyn and I really appreciate you taking the time to help me.

Gai

Gai - sooner or later you're going to have to look at UK old parish registers (OPRs).
Lets do a variant of Catherine's 20/8/09 search.
First I look up Saint Peters Square Presbyterian Scotch National, Manchester at:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers.htm
and get a batch # of c089371 for baptisms 1830-37. I searched for Craddock in the British Isles with this batch #. Using the batch # limits my search to the records for this one church in the given time slot. For presentation purposes, I've given an alternative search which gets the record I wish to display:

Results for: England, British Isles
Father: Robert Craddock, Mother: Grizzel Brisbane
Exact Spelling: Off
Batch Number: c089371

International Genealogical Index / British Isles - 2
Select records to download - (50 maximum)
1. JEAN CRADDOCK - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 25 JUN 1832
2. JEAN CRADDOCK - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 05 AUG 1832 Saint Peters Square Presbyterian Scotch National, Manchester, Lancashire, England

Another kid for Robt & Grace. In Scotland, there were 3 pairs of names that were usually treated as homonyms, namely Jean/Jane, Janet/Jessie, Grace/Grizel.

If you click on Jean, you get to see:

Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
C089371 1830 - 1837 0560890 (RG4 3184) Film 6904396 Film
Sheet: 00

Now click on the source call # and drill down

Title Church records, 1830-1837
Authors Scotch National Church (St. Peter's Square, Manchester) (Main Author)
Notes Microfilm of original records at the Public Record Office, London.
Births and baptisms, 1830-1837.
RG-4 series no. 3184.

and the view film notes button at top right:

Note Location Film
Church records FHL BRITISH Film 560890 Item 3

So we know where the original records are and the LDS FHL film #.
(The other way to get here is via a place search in the library catalog.)

Now you can rent the film to view at a local LDS FHC. There's one at Parramatta, but you should find one from the centre column at:
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/default.asp

Just noticed that the occupation on the insolvency matches the 1851 census where Wm and his father are both joiners.

Another tack you could take is to try to find a living relative. If you go to www.ryersonindex.org you will see the death for the husband of the youngest sibling, Dora:

RUDD George Augustus Death notice 25JUN1948 Death 68 at Marrickville District Hospital, late of Dulwich Hill

This should show children's names and may be useful to track down living descendants.

By the by George was born in 1879 in Newtown NSW to Wm & Margaret nee BYRNE.

Hi again Gai

What a shame about Wm's death cert. Maybe you need to consider ordering their UK marriage cert from 1856 (reg 8d 136, Sep qtr)?

Given the info that her husband had 2 middle initials, there is another birth, Elizabeth A b. 1860 in Gosford NSW. So that is 12 chn.

Does the certificate for Jane give the children's names and ages? Should be:
Thos (decd)
Agnes
Elizabeth A
Ada J (decd)
Ada J
Chas
Henrietta
Wm S
Flora (decd)
Arthur (decd)
Florence M
Dora R

This is interesting...from the newspaper archives there was a Mrs Craddick and family (2) arriving in Brisbane aboard 'Lady Bowen' in Oct 1864. The 2 children must be Agnes & Elizabeth.

I wonder if this is 'your' William from NSW records site, insolvency index, http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/searchform.aspx?id=10

CRADDICK William Henry - 59 King St Sydney Joiner & Carpenter 15/04/1878 14019 6/12/1878

Well today the transcripts of the deaths certificates for William and Jane arrived and I'll be honest I'm very disappointed with Williams death certificate. Actually not not even sure if it is the right person as the transcript gives no information at all. Where the space is for his spouse it is blank, his parents name are not listed and it gives no information as to how many children he had. All I now know is he had a stroke and where he is buried.

As for Jane's, I know she was in NSW for 68 years and that her fathers name was John Hartley and he was a hotel proprietor. So it is now certain that Ada Jane couldn't have been born in Manchester and it is interesting that the certificate says Jane was married in Manchester at the age of 16. William Henry Darlington Craddick is listed as her spouse and according to the transcript she had 13 children and I have double checked and can only find 10 born in Australia. Plus Thomas who died on the voyage so the transcript has to be wrong as Cherilyn you have looked into this more extensively than me and you where the one who found Thomas is the first place.

Very much mixed emotions today so I just might leave more research until tomorrow.

So pleased it's all coming together, and what a great cherry to put on the cake!
Catherine x

Wonderul news, Gai, and how great to have a photo!
:-)
Cherilyn

Hi everyone,

I'm not sure if you are reading my posts still but I am over the moon. I have found a relative on the Moremon side here in Sydney who actually has a photo of Eli and Ada Jane together. At last I will be able to put a face to the name.

I have now found that Samuel Moreman married an Elizabeth Tanner, so now I know Elizabeth's husbands name I will just have to find his death. Another piece in the puzzle.

I have joined one of the historical societies today and have ordered a full transcript of the death certificates for the William Henry Craddock who died in Little Bay and also for Jane Craddick. I know for certain the one I ordered for Jane is the correct person so maybe it may give me the details on how many children they had. If the one for William isn't the correct person at least I only spent $17 on the transcript instead of the $28 from BDM.

Thanks for the tip. I have just gone in and checked and none of my messages has been opened. So frustrating.

I have just found the birth record for Sidney Moremon from Plymouth. He was born in Chipping Sodbury in 1887, so now lets see if I can find him in the census.

In your sent messages box, a closed purple envelope next to the message indicates it hasn't been read (for whatever reason). If the message has been read, then there will be a clear opened envelope next to it, which will have an arrow superimposed if they've sent a reply to that message.

Over the past 2 months I have sent Stephen numerous messages. The first I knew about him was when I received Hot Matches from genes. I did notice that when it came to the family Eli and Ada had 9 children but I only received matches for 7 of them. He had missed Beatrice who died in 1888 and Eli. All I can think of is maybe he has changed his email address and isn't getting the notifications from genes and maybe is has finished his family tree and doesn't need to access his tree anymore.

Though I feel privileged to have made contact with so many wonderful people who I can't thank enough. If it wasn't for you all taking the time to help there is no way I would know so much about the family.

Ok so let's start the day. I have a lead on Sidney Moremon from Plymouth who married Rosa Beatrice George which I about to pursue. I'll let you all know my progress.

Gai - you should contact Stephen as he's probably spent more time on this mob than any of us. As to why he'ld think she was born in Manchester, well maybe he'd only seen her d.cert.

Thanks Cherilyn, That Stephen has the name Stephen Moremon and I have noticed that he has a number of my relatives on his tree. Would love to know how he got Ada Jane in Manchester because I now believe she was born in Queensland. Actually Cherilyn I think it was your detective work that figure out that great piece of information. I posted off today the application form for the birth certificate of that Ada Jane so hopefully it won't take to long to arrive.

I have been thinking about it and I think I will join one of the historical societies and see what information they can give me on William and Jane's death. I have been told they are cheaper than BDM for certificates.

HI Gai

There is someone named Stephen who has an Ada CRADDICK born 1865 in Manchester in his tree - search trees at top of the page!

:-)
Cherilyn

I have added more to my tree and what I'm finding frustrating is that I have matches on another persons tree which I have sent numerous messages to over the past 2 months with no response.

He is obviously related to the Moremon side of the family but I would love to know how. If there is some consolation at least I know that the info I'm putting on my tree is correct.

Think I'll have to start putting all the information that everyone has kindly sent me on Ada Jane and see what matches appear.

Don't know abt the deleted post. On a related matter some posters periodically delete all their posts. I've never quite understood why, but anyways, if this were my thread I'ld copy and paste all these posts into a single text file, headed by the thread title and URL.

I prefer to post FreeCEN and LDS censuses, as their displays give info on the whole h/h that I can grab in one copy and paste. The 1881 is an LDS transcription from:
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/default.asp

It's not the "Head" that means she has no husband, it's the following marital status of "W"=widow/-er. One also sees M=married, U=unmarried and S=single - the latter two are identical, and down to the enumerator's preference.

I've got family from Fraserburgh and Peterhead - two fishing towns, and although I don't have any fishermen, one often sees a neighbouring wife down as head of h/h (married, with no husband present). This is what she's supposed to put, and if she says she's the wife (with no husband present), then Ancestry and the LDS get all confused about where the household ends, so if there's two h/h's in the house (say she's renting the upstairs), the downstairs owner can wind up with 2 wives and a whole mess of extra kids on their transcriptions.

Hi everyone, This is the first opportunity this week I have had to look at the computer. I have just noted on Catherine's post how in the 1871 census the name is Craddick and in 1881 Craddock is the spelling. Now wonder tracing the family tree takes years.

Mgnv, I have noticed on your post that in 1881 Elizabeth Craddock is down as the Head of the household. So I wonder if that means she has no husband or just the fact he wasn't home at the time of the census. Also you don't recall the post which was above your post of 21st August as it has been deleted. I hope it didn't hold anymore important information.

Another week ahead and the 1st priority is to request the birth certificate from QLD BDM of the Ada Jane Craddick born in 1865 and hopefully solve that mystery. Then its onto finding a link with Sidney Moremon of Plymouth with my side. Right now I'm glad I don't have a passport because the urge to jump on a plane to the Uk is big.

Gai - Christine has noted that N Doncaster is possible, so my Long Sandall hypothesis is still open.
[NB re Lane, Manchester - I would guess Lane was actually Lanc=Lancashire]

On 03:31 21/8/09, I posted an 1861 census that Christine sent me.
It shows Elizabeth Craddock MS Gill's mother.
Whilst looking for Eliz Craddock in 1881, I came across another Eliz Craddock whose relevance I don't know, but I was struck by the presence of a Gill in this h/h.

1881 Household:
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Elizabeth CRADDOCK Head W Female 85 Hardingstone, Northampton, England
Martha WHITE Other W Female 81 Hardingstone, Northampton, England
Fanny JEFFS Visitor U Female 21 Hardingstone, Northampton, England Dressmaker
Martha GILL Visitor U Female 20 Northampton, Northampton, England Dressmaker
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling 18 Dychurch Lane
Census Place Northampton St Giles, Northampton, England
Family History Library Film 1341372
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 1543 / 66
Page Number 7