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I was wondering if anyone could help me here. My great nan was Rose Theobald (known as Peg to most, though) and I'm finding it hard to trace the Theobalds, I would be grateful to any suggestions or anyone who may knew of her. Her sister was an Else Theobald who married Arthur Arnold...I know there was another sister, however, we are unsure of her name. I also know that Rose was born in West Ham, London and moved to Norfolk when my nan, Linda, was 17/18.

Sorry if this is just a rambling of information, I thought the most I could throw out there the better.

Thank you.

Shona.

Do you have any idea when and where Rose was born and who she married?

Kath. x

I do, yes.
She was born in West ham on the sixth of december 1920. She married Stanley William Samuel Abbey in 1941 in Leyton.
Her father was a John Theobald, but we know nothing about him. So, I am a bit stuck.

Shona x

So this is her birth

Births Mar 1921 (>99%)
Theobald Rose I Bailey W.Ham 4a 693

This looks like Elsie's birth:-

Name: Elsie M Theobald
Mother's Maiden Surname: Bailey
Date of Registration: Jan Feb Mar 1925
Registration district: Edmonton
Registration county: Hertfordshire, Oxfordshire, Buckinghamshire, Middlesex
Volume Number: 3a
Page Number: 940

This could be the other sister (seems they might be twins):-

Name: Violet E Theobald
Mother's Maiden Surname: Bailey
Date of Registration: Jan Feb Mar 1925
Registration district: Edmonton
Registration county: Hertfordshire, Oxfordshire, Buckinghamshire, Middlesex
Volume Number: 3a
Page Number: 940

Kath. x

This is interesting as everything is correct except the birth date.
Also, Rose Irene Theobald's mother's maiden name was Bailey, however, I have her birth certificate here and there is no mention of Bailey in her name.

Kath, this is interesting too! As the sisters were twins, but we aren't so sure about the registration county... however everything else there seems to be correct. Thankyou very much for finding this out, it has been helpful, anything else you may find out would be greatly appreciated.

Parents have 6 weeks to register a birth and the date given above is the date when the birth was registered - not when the birth occurred. Where it mentions Bailey this is not part of Rose's name but the maiden name of the mother so these do seem to be your family.

County boundaries have changed a lot over the years so I wouldn't take too much notice of what county is given.

Kath. x

I have looked for a marriage between a John Theobald and a Bailey (Rose's parents) but I can't find one at the moment.

Kath. x

What was Rose's mother's name??

Maureen

thankyou for looking for the marriage records, as we only know the death of Rose's mother.
Rose's mother's name is Rosina Mary Bailey.

There are lots of marriages for the name Rosina M. Bailey but none to a John Theobald. It could be that they were not actually married, or that Rosina had been previously married so the marriage to John Theobald would be in a different name.

Kath. x

Hi There

When did Rosina (the mother) die?


Tracey x

Re Tracey's question -- Rosina Mary Bailey Theobald's death record will state at least an age, and if it was after 1971, a date of birth.

That should help a lot in trying to identify her birth.

Any other relevant info you have that nobody else knows, please do offer it up.

Given that Rose was born in 1921 and that her mother 'may' have been aged between 18 and 25 (so born between 1896 and 1903) at the time of the birth this looks like a very good chance of being her?

Births Jun 1900
BAILEY Rosina Mary Hackney 1b 564

Tracey x

That's the one I was figuring too. There isn't a clear frontrunner in the 1901 census.


http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

So Shona can do the searches too and get a feel for what we're doing.

Interesting find on the 1911....

BERG, OTTA CHARLES HUSBAND MARRIED M 36 OUT OF WORK GARD FARMAN 36 PRESIDENT ST S L
BERG, FLORENCE MARY WIFE MARRIED 17 F 38 5 GOLDEN LANE S L
BERG, FLORENCE LOUISA DAUGHTER SINGLE F 16 CHOCOLATE PACKER 67 MOORLAND STABY RD
BERG, JESSIE DAUGHTER SINGLE F 15 CHOCOLATE MOLDER 67 MOORLAND STABY RD
BERG, CHARLES HENRY SON M 14 ERRAND BOY UNDER WOOD ST HOXTON
BERG, ROSINA MARY DAUGHTER F 11 SHEPPERDESS WALK
BERG, LILY AMY DAUGHTER F 10 STURT ST SHEPPERDON WALK
BERG, GEORGE THOMAS ON M 7 12X DIBDEN ST ISLINGTON
BERG, HENRY EDWARD SON M 5 12 DIBDEN ST ISLINGTON
BERG, ELLEN MINNIE DAUGHTER F 4 12X DIBDEN ST ISLINGTON
BERG, EDITH MAY DAUGHTER F 2 12X DIBDEN ST ISLINGTON
BERG, BERTIE SON M 1 12X DIBDEN ST ISLINGTON
BRG, WILLIAM GEORGE SON M 13 12X DIBDEN ST ISLINGTON
BERG, ALBERT EDWARD SON M 9 12X DIBDEN ST ISLINGTON
BERG ROSINA MARY (RG14PN1104 RG78PN36 RD11 SD3 ED31 SN125)
Address 84 DANBENEY ROAD N E County London
District Hackney Subdistrict Central Hackney
Enumeration District 31 Parish St John at Hackney

Could they have possibly 'anglicised' their name to Bailey??


Tracey x

EDIT:

Hmmmm.... maybe not

Births Dec 1899
Berg Rosina Mary Shoreditch 1c 39

Too bad! That would have been one honking big heap of rellies to acquire there. ;)

OK, try this one...

BAILEY, RICHARD HEAD MARRIED M 41 TINMAN BOX MAKER ISLINGTON
BAILEY, ELLEN WIFE MARRIED 18 F 40 BETHNAL GREEN
BAILEY, ELLEN DAUGHTER SINGLE F 17 FEATHER CURLER BETHNAL GREEN
BAILEY, AGNES DAUGHTER SINGLE F 16 FEATHER CURLER ST LUKES
BAILEY, ALFRED SON M 14 ERRAND BOY AT PACKING CASE MAKERS ST LUKES
BAILEY, ROSINA DAUGHTER F 11 ST LUKES
BAILEY, RICHARD SON M 10 ST LUKES
BAILEY, CHARLOTTE DAUGHTER F 7 ST LUKES
BAILEY, JAMES SON M 5 ST LUKES
BAILEY ROSINA (RG14PN1252 RG78PN43 RD14 SD3 ED4 SN242)
Address 14 K BLOCK PEABODY BUILDINGS DUFFERIN ST E C County London
District Holborn Subdistrict St Luke
Enumeration District 4 Parish St Luke

What do you think Janey?


Tracey x

Yup, looked at them in the 1901:

Name: Rosina Bailey
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1900
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Richard
(there seems to be no reason why mother Ellen isn't named)
Where born: St Luke, London, England

Civil parish: St Luke
> Registration district: Holborn

Richard Bailey 31 - Tinman/Box Maker
Ellen Bailey 30
Ellen Bailey 7
Agnes Bailey 6
Alfred Bailey 4
Rosina Bailey 1
Richard Bailey 2 weeks


No actual Hackney connection is the slight problem.