Find Ancestors

Vivienne,its the pest again.Sorry i did not see your last reply till after i had sent message.Yes it seems that they are the parents of grandad.the message you sent on 2/6 at 16:13 re:1901 census has Eliza on her own (no Charles), i looked up the address it is shown as 27,station place,also looked up deaths and found a charles john white on the 2nd quarter of 1899 4a 58 in west ham,seems that he died at the young age of 38(if i have done this right?).If it is okay i will keep you informed of any progress?. One more thing if imay, on the 1891 census there is no mention of a William but on the 1901 census it shows him aged 19 ???(.Said some skeletons would come out of the cupboard.) thanks again for your help.

Robert.
On 1901 Eliza is a widow yes,BUT William is aged 9 not 19 and therefore born before charles died.
What looks like a 1 in front of the 9 on the image is not so,it is just a stroke of the pen as is done on all the columns above it.
If William was 19 he would have been above john aged 13 as they went in ascending order.
viv

Hello Vivienne,i am very sorry to trouble you but i seem to be running around in circles trying to sort out grandads linage: I sent for the marriage cert:(vol 1a page 517) Robert +Janes,which gave me the name of g.g,dad(charles) i then sent of for the marriage cert:(vol1c page663) which came today. Charles married Eliza sharp on the 27 march 1878.So far i have managed to trace Elizas father on the 1871 census,his name is Robert sharp widower aged 67 living at 47,Devonshire street,St.Georges in the east,and Charles family (i think) on the same 1871 census living at no:20 Devonshire street,St.Georges in the east.The occupation of Charles(g.g.g)is given as a paper stainer?,Vivienne if you could check this up or give me some guidance on what to do next i would be extremely grateful. Once again a BIG THANKYOU..........the pest.

hello Robert.
I am not at home at the mo,visiting the parents in somerset.
I was just checking what was going on here,I am an addict you see.
I will check it all out for you tomorrow evening, the minute I get home.
I promise to get back ASAP after walking through the door.
Patience is a virtue ,for now.
viv

Elizas birth?Which will of course give you her mothers maiden name
Name: Eliza Sharp
Year of Registration: 1860
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: St George in The East
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1c
Page: 412

You have the correct family for eliza I see,so therefore I have the correct birth for her

1871 England Census
about Eliza Sharp
Name: Eliza Sharp
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Robert
Gender: Female
Where born: St George, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: St George in The East
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: St George In The East
Sub-registration district: St Paul
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 167
Household Members: Name Age
Robert Sharp 67
Susannah Sharp 19
Rebecca Sharp 17
Elizabeth Sharp 14
Sarah Sharp 12
Eliza Sharp 11

1861 England Census
about Robert Sharp
Name: Robert Sharp
Age: 56
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1805
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Susannah
Gender: Male
Where born: St George, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: St George in The East
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View Image

Registration district: St George In The East
Sub-registration district: St Paul
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 126
Household Members: Name Age
Robert Sharp 56
Susannah Sharp 30
Susannah Sharp 9
William Sharp 8
Rebecca Sharp 7
Elizabeth Sharp 6
Sarah Sharp 2
Eliza Sharp 1

Back tomorrow with the whites.

Are you saying that ggrandad charles father ,the paper strainer ,was also called charles?
Also I will see if I can find a marriage for robert sharp,one is not slapping me in the face at the mo.
Did you note the 20 year age gap between him and susannah
Cradle snatcher !
viv

Vivienne,you are an absolute DIAMOND,yes g.g.g.dads name was also Charles and no i did not notice the age gap between Robert and Susannah(.This is really starting to get intresting?) On the marriage cert: for g.g.Charles one of the witness,s is an Agnes white who i believe to be his mother?,the signature is an X which i presume ment that she was illiterate?.Vivienne please apologise to your family for me for me to keep pestering you regarding my thirst for more information,Once again thankyou........ the pest

Vivienne,also looked up the 1901 census and on the view others page it as William aged 19,i knew i had seen it somewhere,but as you said on the census page it as him as 9 years old.their mistake i think........the pest.

With daughter elizabeth ,now known as Betsy.
Says hes married,who to then?



1881 England Census
about Robert Sharp
Name: Robert Sharp
Age: 79
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1802
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: St George E, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: St George in The East
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address: 8 Walberg St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status:

View Image
Occupation: Pensioner
***************************************.
The only mariage I can see to suit Robert and susannah,but it is after the kids were born ,so you will need to get Elizas birth cert to be sure of her mother.

Marriages Sep 1860 (>99%)

Sharp Robert Mile End 1c 1026
Teague Susannah Mile End 1c 1026

***********************************************

I see that Robert Sharp was a soldier,so maybe have a look on The national archives website to see if he is listed on there.

The Whites
Yes, Agnes would have been illiterate if she just made her mark with an X


1871 England Census
about Charles White
Name: Charles White
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Charles
Mother's Name: Agnes
Gender: Male
Where born: London, England
Civil parish: St George in The East
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View Image
Registration district: St George In The East
Sub-registration district: St Paul
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 140
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles White 42<<paper strainer.
Agnes White 37
Thomas White 14
Charles White 13
John White 8

****************************************

1861 England Census
about Charles White
Name: Charles White
Age: 2
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Charles
Mother's Name: Agnes
Gender: Male
Where born: St George, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: St George in The East
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View Image

Registration district: St George In The East
Sub-registration district: St Paul
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 253
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles White 32
Agnes White 27
Thomas White 4
Charles White 2
Henry W White 4 Mo

Henry isnt with them in 1871,so he must have died.

******************************************************

A possible marriage for Agnes and charl;es white.

Marriages Dec 1855 (>99%)
CLEARY Ellen Strand 1b 606
>>>>COLLINS Agnes Strand 1b 606
SULLIVAN Denis Strand 1b 606
>>>>>WHITE Charles Strand 1b 606

But really you/I need to find a birth for one of their kids to be sure before investing in that.
But of course if it came back with Charles as a paper strainer for occupation you would know it was correct.

Choices for agnes and charles whites kids.
Bloomin common name White,coupled with common christian names even worse!

Births Sep 1863 (>99%)
WHITE John James St Geo East 1c 405

Births Sep 1864 (>99%)
White John Joseph St Geo East 1c 417

Going on the 1901 census when he gives the initial J for a second name and the 1871 and 1881 census of his birth years which are more likely to be correct.
You can use father charles and mother agnes as checking refs if you send for it.

***************************************
I think this is the death of baby, Henry W White,as on the 1861 cesus but not on 1871
But I cant see a birth record for him.

Deaths Sep 1862 (>99%)
White Henry William St Geo. East 1c 316

*****************************************************

The only one I can see is with the second name of edward and thats a bit early for him.

Births Dec 1860 (>99%)
WHITE Henry Edward St Geo East 1c 456

I am unable to pinpoint charles or thomas births as there are so many possibles!

Well pesky Robert.

Hope all this is of some help,and you are not a pest ,just trying to get a second opinion,which does help if you are unsure.
Mind you I can be way off at times.
Not often of course!

Do try searching on ,,freebmd,,it is very easy to do,and will hone your searching skills.
Let me know if you need more opinions ,as I have many!

viv

To maybe find Robert Sharps military history I think you would have to go in person to kew{national archives}

If hes listed anywhere it would be in this collection I think.

*********************************************************************

Record Summary
Title
Royal Hospital Chelsea: Soldiers Service Documents
Covering dates 1760-1913
Availability This series is currently undergoing digitisation (from May 2008). Access to certain pieces will be disrupted over the next 3 years and advance ordering of this series may be interrupted during this time. Please check with us that the pieces that you wish to consult are not affected before you travel. For more details please visit the project news at http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/news/stories/212.htm (a live link to this is available in the ScopeContent at WO 97 series level). Available in microform only unless otherwise stated
Note Catalogue descriptions for this series were enhanced as part of a project supported by the Friends of The National Archives and the Army Museums Ogilby Trust. PLEASE NOTE: This series is currently undergoing digitisation (from May 2008). Access to certain pieces will be disrupted over the next 3 years and advance ordering of this series may be interrupted during this time. Please check with us that the pieces that you wish to consult are not affected before you travel. For more details please visit the project news at http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/news/stories/212.htm (a live link to this is available in the ScopeContent at WO 97 series level)
Held by
The National Archives, Kew

Hello Vivienne,(Guess who).well thankyou for last lot of information.Now you might find this confusing??,i have been searching for a Agnes collins (r.e.1b 606) and have come across these entries on G.R. 1841 census,no:21 church street,John collins head(50),mary wife(40),agnes(10) and what looks like a jane?on the 1851 census there is 1 agnes down in bristol with a sister?,1861census an agnes living at no:4 duke street but she is not on that page also shown as being born in cork ireland.1891census an agnes white living at no:4 hope court but shown as being born in scotland.Then i have an agnes white living at 158 lots road chelsea in the 1901census which ties in with the address i have on g.dads marriage cert:(robert + jane) which as got g.g.dads name(charles)the docker on.I do believe that the trip to kew will be the best thing that i can do.(sorry if this is all gobbledegook) the pest....

So Pesky......
You want more huh,no prob.
The way I see Agnes white/collins coming up.

1901 England Census
about Agnes White
Name: Agnes White
Age: 66
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1835
Relation: Mother
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland

Civil parish: Chelsea
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View Image

Registration district: Chelsea
Sub-registration district: Chelsea, South

With son John and D.I.L. Esther.

**********************************************

1891 England Census
about Agnes White
Name: Agnes White
Age: 53
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Relation: Mother
Gender: Female
Where born: Cork, Ireland

Civil parish: Chelsea
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
Town: London
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View Image

Registration district: Chelsea
Sub-registration district: Chelsea, North


With son john and some Irish folks who may or may not be relations.

***********************************************

1881 England Census
about Agnes White
Name: Agnes White
Age: 47
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1834
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: London, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: St George in The East
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address: 38 Station Place
Condition as to marriage: Windower (Widower)
Education:

Employment status:

View Image
Occupation: Needlewoman

Registration district: St George In The East
Sub-registration district: St Paul
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Agnes White 47
Thomas White 24
John White 17


Now she says born london,but we know different,with sons thomas and john obviously ,so its her ,
but losing the plot on her birth place.
Probably still upset after the death of hubby charles.

********************************************************

We already have her with hubby charles on 1871 and 1861 so now for 1851 and 1841 as Agnes collins,IF poss

Here she is in 1851,mistranscribed as CALLENS,but if you look at the original she is COLLINS,and she is a needlewoman,just as she is in 1881.
Brother Michael is a tailor.


1851 England Census
about Agnes Callens
Name: Agnes Callens
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1833
Relation: Sister
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland

Civil parish: St Giles in The Fields
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View Image

Registration district: St Giles
Sub-registration district: St Giles South
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 234
Household Members:
Name Age
Michael Callens 27
Agnes Callens 18