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I have just acquired a birth certificate for my grandfather John Read, born 2nd July 1929 in the district of Barnsley. (Wombwell)

His parents are John Read and Minnie (previously Fowler).

I can find a Minnie Read on the 1901 census in Wombwell aged 3 (born Q1 1898).

I cannot find a marriage record for a Minnie Fowler and a John Read. Can anyone help me with this?

Have you looked for the marriage on the FULL index?

If she was nee Fowler, she wouldn't be Minnie Read aged 3 on the census - have you tried looking for Minnie Fowler?

I've found one born March 1898 in Barnsley and on the 1901 census so presume this is the one you've mentioned for Minnie Read. There are transcripton errors as her older brother is 4 not 41!

Found a Minnie A Folwer marrying a Henry T Read in Paddington, Greater London in Q2 1913

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1983 England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1983
Name: Minnie A Fowler
Year of Registration: 1913
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Spouse's Surname: Read
District: Paddington
County: Greater London, London, Middlesex
Volume: 1a
Page: 62


Could be them
Susan

Cross-refer with thread about Ada Shillito........................

Minnie would have been only 14/15 in 1913

sorry that's my typo that's confusing things!

On the 1901 census she is Minnie Fowler aged 3.

My grandad's birth cert gives his parents as John and Minnie Read (nee Fowler)

I can't find marriage for them tho.

Richochet - what do you mean by FULL index? I have full subsription on here and am also looking at FreeBDM.

If by here', you mean GR............'they only link you to other sites.....they do not have ANY info of their own.

freebmd is not fully transcribed..............

Yes - Albert died in the same quarter as his birth.

I found it rather odd that they then waited 4 yrs to have another baby.

It's also frustrating me that I can't find a marriage entry as I would like to confirm that Minnie is the daughter of Thomas Henry Fowler and Ada Shillito. And the only way to confirm her family details is to get hold of her marriage cert etc.

I have found, with help from Richochet, a lot on info on the 1891 census regarding the family to enable me to trace backwards - but I don't want to waste time doing that if they aren't actually her family!

yeah that had crossed my mind too. This is the first time I have ordered a birth certificate before and I says the mother is 'Minnie Read formerly Fowler'. I assumed this to mean her maiden name.

But could it be that it's a former married name? Which means the rest of my search on Minnie Fowler's family is unnecessary?

Or would she have been born Minnie Fowler but married John Read under a different surname?

I have searched FreeBDM for a marriage between 1914 and 1929 between John Read and Minnie.

It brings ip the following -

Minnie Hogbin 1915
Minnie Howles 1918
Minnie F Cook 1919
Minnie B Davey 1920
Minnie Gilbert 1929
Minnie Williams 1929

I have then checked all these surnames against marrying a Mr Fowler to see if Fowler was a surname acquired from a first marriage - NONE of them correspond apart from the last one - but surely that has to be discounted if John Read and Minnie (formerly Fowler) have 2 children in 1924 and 1929.


UNLESS

maybe Minnie was a lot older that my great-grandfather which means she could have married before 1914 (and would mean that she isn't the Minnie Fowler in the 1901 census that I had thought her to be). He was born 1896. I know my grandfather was born 1929 - and I am told by relatives that his mother (Minnie) died when he was around 6yrs old.

update - just searched Death records and found a death registered for Minnie Read in Q2 1939 at Staincross volume 9c page 273 (which is Barnsley) aged 41.

If I order that certificate, will it give me any information other than her exact date of birth and death?

It won't give her exact DOB...............only her age 'as known'.

If the deceased was a married woman, it will include the name of her husband.......

The other scenario, of course, is that Minnie and John didn't actually marry..............

This is sooooooooo frustrating!! lol.

I thought I was starting to get somewhere when I received the birth cert this morning - now I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall!!!

Ricochet - I was also wondering if a marriage had ever taken place!! The frustrating thing is, without a marriage cert to give Minnie's fathers name, I can't be sure of her family line. I also can't find my great-grandfathers line either without his parents names as there are 4 John Read's born in Q4 1896.

I really don't want to hit a blank so early into the tree. Any more suggestions anyone?

What was the address on the birth cert please?


OOhh - and father's occupation?


Dea x

Dea - the address is 38 Aldham Cottages, Wombwell and John Read is a colliery surface labourer

Thanks,

It doesn't really help you at the moment but there are somer Army Pension Records on Ancestry for a John Read - No 33497 from Wombwell.

1915 + 1918 show his address as 19 John Street, Wombwell (so that doesn't match but it was many years earlier!!)

His occupation though was a 'Colliery Surface Worker' in 1915, (although many people living around that area probably were!!)

It might be worth looking at though as up until around 1920 next of kin were his parents (father = Charles). which cuts down the dates to find a marriage for him if it is the same one).

Might be worth you having a look??

I will see if I can find anything else.........

Dea x

Dea - you are an Angel!!!!

We have my great-grandad's war medals and he is indeed number 33497

I will check the John Read's on the 1901 census straight away for a father named Charles!!!!

Thank you!!!!

WWWWWWWWWoooooooowwwwwwwww !!!!

You didn't tell me that earlier !!

Do let me know how you get on and what to look at next!

Dea x

completely forgot about his war medals until you mentioned them!

I've been so busy concentrating on trying to find his parents and his marriage!

Looked at the 1901 census. He was definitely born 1896 but none of the 7 have a Charles as head of family, nor do the 10 in 1897, and only one John Read born c1898 has Charles as his father (but John has a middle initial of S).

According to FreeBDM, John Read born Q4 1896 was born in either Pontardawe, Blackburn, Walsingham or Chorlton

the only death for Minnie Read in Barnsley is in 1939 and she is 41. which means she is born c1889.

can anyone check the 1911 census for me please to see if John and his parents were living at 19 John Street? And to tell me who else was in the household? Thanks