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Just to say I have drawn a complete blank on tracing My Henry William Lucas any further back than his wedding in 1869. The census entries consistently say his birthplace as St Lukes, Old Street and a birth year of 1846/47. I am wondering if he was born illegitimately and he originally took his mother's surname which is why he is not on 1851/1861 censuses. However there are a lot of Henry William's born in and around 1846. I did find a henry William Webb born illegitimately to a Jane Webb in 1846 in Shoreditch. Any further help or suggestions would be gratefully received.

This is very interesting!
The census entries for Henry William Lucas say Middlesex St Lukes. I have always assumed that this was St Lukes Old Street Holborn. In fact it could be St Lukes Chelsea. Is there any further info on where in Lancashire this Henry and Ann Lucas came from? Please could you do some more digging!

I agree kucinta.

in 1851 Thomas Lucas born Lancashire is at York Court next to East Street

Maryb

I think Thomas Lucas's occupation is porter not potter on the marriage of Mary Ann to John Bardell, and I think its 50-50 whether its potter or porter on the 1851 census.

??
Mary Ann Lucas married 8/12/1870 at St Luke Chelsea to John Bardell born @ 1847 dad William his address Chelsea Barracks
Mary Ann's dad Thomas Lucas a potter/porter her address 13,George Street.

1881 Rectory D4>6 26,East Street
John Bardell 35 general labourer born Marylebone.
Mary Ann 34 born Marylebone.

She looks like the one with parents Thomas and Ann born Lancashire on 1851 census.

??death of Thomas lucas born @1819 died 1851 St Luke Chelsea.

Maryb.

Thanks Kucinta,
I fortunately remembered that I had looked at the 1842 Thomas Lucas marriage a long while ago.

I can still find nothing for the Thomas and Ann Lucas family living in The Rectory district of Marylebone in the 1851 census(see back in this post). So far I have not found any details of births, marriages or deaths for anybody in this family. The only information that is interesting is that it gives the occupation of Thomas Lucas as a potter and that he was born in Lancashire. Around 1840 there were strikes in the potteries in Lancashire and Staffordshire and that may have caused him to move to London.

If anybody can help with any information on this 1851 census entry it would be gratefully received!

RE the 1842 marriage :

Marriages Jun 1842
BARRETT Edward St Lukes 2 251
DeLaRUE Jane Champion St Lukes 2 251
HUNT Laura St Lukes 2 251
LUCAS Fanny Ann St Luke 2 251 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
LUCAS Thomas St Luke 2 251 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
PERRING John Thomas St Luke 2<<<<<<<<<<<
POORE Rachel St Lukes 2 251
TONG Richard Greenwich 2 251
WILSON Rebecca St Lukes 2 251<<<<<<<<<<<

Name: Thomas Lucas - bachelor, brewer's servant
Spouse: Rebecca Wilson
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 17 May 1842
Parish: St Luke, Finsbury
Borough: Islington
Father Name: Thomas Lucas - labourer
Spouse Father: John Wilson - shepherd
Register Type: Parish Register

Bride and groom both of Old Street.
Witnesses Thomas Engley and Edward Willson.

just for interest:

Name: John Thomas Perring - coppersmith
Spouse: Fanny Ann Lucas<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 16 May 1842
Parish: St Luke, Finsbury
Borough: Islington
Father Name: George Perring - book binder
Spouse Father: Richard Lucas - book closer
Register Type: Parish Register

Bride and groom both of 4, Tyler Court.

Witnesses Thomas Engley and Sarah Lucas.

I shall buy a copy of the 1842 Thomas Lucas marriage and see what it says!

Yvonne,
If this Thomas Lucas marriage was for my Thomas Lucas then Thomas Lucas Junior had already been born. Maybe Fanny Ann had assumed the surname Lucas?

funny thing is that there is no birth for a fanny ann lucas any where

The baptism details I gave above were not for the correct Lucas parents. I have just realised that they were for a William Henry Lucas born to parents John and Mary Bane Lucas. Please ignore this christening.

wonder if this is their marriage but ann is called fanny ann perhaps she just went by the name of ann and didnot like the name fanny

To: Search Results
COPY PRINT SOURCE BOX SHARE
Thomas Lucas
England and Wales Marriage Registration Index
Name: Thomas Lucas
Event Type: Marriage
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration Year: 1842
Registration District: St. Luke
County: London
Event Place: St. Luke, London, England
Volume: 2
Page: 251
Line Number: 157

Thomas Lucas probably married one of the following people
Name: Edward Barrett
Name: Jane Champion Delarue
Name: Laura Hunt
Name: Fanny Ann Lucas

It seems that Henry Lucas born 1845 was christened at Charterhouse St Thomas 12 Nov 1848 when Aged 3.

Charterhouse St Thomas was in Goswell Street and became part of the Finsbury district.

I am trying to find out further information about Henrys parents Thomas(occupation potter) and Ann Lucas both born around 1821 Lancashire. I cannot find any reference to them in London before 1851 or after the 1851 census.

IF YOU HAVE READ THIS please see my note below as it is not to the correct Lucas parents and can be ignored.

Just to be clear, I still need to eliminate the Henry Lucas from the following family in the 1851 census:

Now I need to try and eliminate from my enquiries the family of Thomas and Ann Lucas living in Marylebone on the 1851 census

Thomas Lucas born 1821 Lancashire
Ann Lucas born 1821 Lancashire
Thomas Lucas born 1840 Marylebone
Mary Ann Lucas born 1842 Marylebone
George Lucas born 1845 Marylebone
Henry Lucas born 1847 Marylebone

I did check out a Thomas Lucas born 1841 living in Devonport born London on the 1871 census but he married a Mary Ann Duggan in 1868 and his father is down as Edward Lucas.

So the only Lucas family mentioned that I have not elminated is the family of Ann and Thomas Lucas living in Marylebone in 1851 census - details above.

I think we can eliminate him from our enquiries:

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
Name: William Henry Lucas
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Age: 24
Spouse Name: Emily Wayman
Spouse Age: 20
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 19 May 1872
Parish: Clerkenwell St John
Borough: Islington
Father Name: Philip Lucas
Spouse Father Name: Charles Wayman
Register Type: Parish Register

This William Henry Lucas is down as William Lucas in the 1861 census living with his parents

Philip Lucas
Mary Ann Lucas
and sister Sarah A Lucas

in Thomas Street St Lukes.

Maybe his father became imprisoned and he switched his names around to Henry William and lied about his father's name on his marriage certificate - just a thought!

Going back to the 1847 OCt -Dec birth cert of William Henry Lucas in St Lukes. he was born in Great Arthur Street which is close to other addresses such as Anchor Yard where he lived in St Lukes. Except for the wrong father's name it would definitely warrant further investigation.

Oh well, was worth a try!

I have got the birth certificate for that one and it is not mine - Father's name is Philip Lucas (Last Maker) and mother Mary Ann Jackson

Well I assume not mine - unless he lied about his father's name on his marriage certificate!