Find Ancestors

I am trying to find birth and marriage records for my great great grandfather Robert Starmer. He appears on the 1881 Census in Cookridge hospital in Leeds (error on surname spelling) his wife and family also at seperate address in Leeds. 1891, 1901 & 1911 in Leeds with family. Census consistently says he was born in Leicestershire around 1844 - 1847 but I can not find a birth entry for him. On the 1911 census it states that he has been married for 36 years so about 1875 but a search a couple of years either side of this has produced nothing. HIs wife was Jane Starmer from Cosby Leicestershire. (maiden name Starmer also). The first born was John Robert Starmer born in Cosby Leicestershire in 1873 and I can not find a birth entry for him. He died in 1887 in Leeds and I have this death certificate showing Robert Starmer as father. I also have Robert's death certificate in Leeds 1922 showing age as 75. Death notified by one of his daughters. Jane's family are well documented in a local family history site in Cosby so I think that is right. Her sister's had illegitimate children who were baptised but John Robert wasn't - if 1875 marriage is correct he would have been illegitimate. Perhaps they never married? Or for whatever reason he took her surname? and that is why I can not find birth entry. Any help, suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for reading quite a long post.

Sharon

The IGI has three things -- these are all in pretty close proximity to Cosby I think:


1. Robert Starmer - parents William and Ann; submitted record
Christening: 27 AUG 1842 Welton, Northampton, England

2. Robert Starmore - parents Robert and Jane; submitted record
Christening: 19 MAR 1844 Woodford Near Thrapston, Northampton, England

3. ROBERT STARMORE - parents Edward and Caroline; batch C062131
Gender: Male Christening: 12 JAN 1845 Holy Trinity, Bedford, Bedford, England


No other Starmers in that batch.

It seems to be a local name. I'll take a poke around ...

1901, for reference:

Name: Robert Starmer
Age: 57
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1844
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Jane
Where born: Leicester, Leicestershire, England

Name: Jane Starmer
Age: 52
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1849
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Robert
Where born: Cosby, Leicestershire, England

Civil Parish: Potter Newton
County/Island: Yorkshire

Robert Starmer 57
Jane Starmer 52
James Starmer 22
Arthur Starmer 17
Willie Starmer 16
Maria B Starmer 12

If Jane's name was Starmer, there look to be three choices:


Births Jun 1846
Starmer Jane Northampton 15 313

Births Sep 1847
Starmer Jane Blaby 15 51

Births Dec 1847
STARMOR_ Jane Bedford 6 19


Oh, I'm dumb. I was thinking *Corby* Northamptonshire. Adjust perspective ...


This is the only suitable candidate for Jane in 1861:

Name: Jane Starmer
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Maria
Where born: Cosby, Leicestershire, England

Civil Parish: Cosby
County/Island: Leicestershire
Registration district: Blaby

William Starmer 50
Maria Starmer 49
Mary Starmer 29
Ann Starmer 22
Jane Starmer 13
William Starmer 10
Benjimer Starmer 2 Mo


Pretty tight match with the 1847 birth.

Perhaps they never married?
Or for whatever reason he took her surname?
and that is why I can not find birth entry.


I think you may be onto it.

I can think of one reason that happens to apply to my grx2 grandfather.

He deserted from the military in India when they decided that instead of sending him home after 5 years, they were going to send him to Afghanistan. That would have been 1878. It's the dividing line between when he had his real name (which I had never heard of), up to his 1873 first marriage (followed shortly by the wife's death) and when he had his fake name (which my mother thought was her name) in the 1881 census.

Then there was his sister's husband. She adopted the fake name too, for whatever reasons of her own (I'd never heard of her either), when she married. And then she disappeared, and I finally found her husband with a fake name of his own. That one was bankruptcy and cheating the creditors, as far as I can tell.

I was lucky that my grx2 grandfather actually kept his two given names when he swapped his surname, and that they were very distinctive. His real surname was common as dirt. And I had a paper trail -- one marriage and numerous births that I knew of, a previous marriage and birth that I discovered, findable in the censuses both sides of the swap (even if it did take a year to find him in all of the years).

You've got a Robert who first exists in 1881. No distinctive first and middle names like I had, no obscure birthplace like I had, no clues about father's name and siblings' names (from kids' names) like I had.

But it really is very coincidental that he married a woman with his own surname -- or that she married a man with her own surname, we should say, since at least we know hers is hers.

One other reason might be a previous still existing marriage. But that doesn't help find him either. Unless Robert John was born under Robert's real surname ...

A bit more of a poke around ...

Robert John Starmer in 1881:


Name: John R. Starmer
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Jane
Where born: Cosby, Leicestershire, England
Civil Parish: Leeds


The name format could suggests that

- he was John Robert but went by Robert, so emphasized the initial
- he was Robert John but went by John, and included the Robert as an initial

A middle initial was commonly used in the censuses in both instances.


Just to situate JR/RJ in time:

Births Jun 1875
Starmer Amy Leeds 9b 453

He was before her, by about two years, by all indications.

If we assume Jr's date and place of birth are on the accurate side, births 1871-73 include these candidates:


Births Sep 1873
Barratt John Robert Blaby 7a 46

Births Dec 1873
Martin John Roberts Blaby 7a 39

There's no Robert John birth in that district in that timeframe.


Now, the fact that he was born in Cosby may associate him more with Jane than with Robert. We know that's where Jane was from. We don't know where Robert was around 1871.

You need to fix the surname mistranscription for Robert in 1881, at Ancestry. Or at least tell us what it says. I'm not finding him. ;)

Is there any indication of what he's in hospital for? Not likely.

Thanks Evie-Beavie. Blaby and Cosby are next to each other as far as I can establish. I have done a long search on several sites for John Robert and any other surname and not come across these so thanks for this. On a website Leicerstershire villages you can access excel of baptism's I have looked for John Robert and any other surname and none - but will look for just John and one of these surnames. Perhaps Robert was added later. Oh the intrigue. Illegitmacy is one thing but changing your name for other reasons perhaps fleeing something is very interesting, Does anyone know how I can find anything about desertion or criminal records / prison that may be a reason for change of name.? I don't know why the family moved to Leeds and they do not seem to have any other family at the time in Leeds. One Starmer (sheet music people) but I can not find a link. So perhaps the move was to start a fresh life?

This is from Latter Day Saints - I know some people do not take this is accurate but it is all I can find and all other things age etc occupation fit. Does not state why he is a patient. 1881 census


Robert STARMAR Household
Male

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Other Information:
Birth Year
Birthplace Leicester, England
Age 34
Occupation Shoe Maker
Marital Status M
Head of Household William RHODES
Relation Patient
Disability

Finally found him ... ended up looking for anyone born 1840-1850, in hosp* in Yorkshire! Don't know why nothing else did it.

Name: Robert Starmar
Age: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation: Patient
Gender: Male
Where born: Leicestershire, England
Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Shoe Maker

Civil Parish: Adel Cum Eccup
County/Island: Yorkshire

Street address: "Cookridge Hospital"
Registration district: Wharfedale


Now, I'm just always looking to share my pain, but dang, the similarities.

My guy - we'll call him JAH, who became JAM.

Born c1850 in obscure village in the southwest. 1871 in London -- with even his common as dirt name misspelled. That year's entry was the last one I found. It didn't occur to me that a four-letter name like that would be misspelled.

Late 1872 marries in Berkshire, kid born and wife dies in early 1873 in rapid succession. Kid died at 18 in Kent where she's a domestic. She has a new version of her given name, and the fake surname.

JAH turns up as JAM in 1881 in Cheshire, with his mother and that daughter (presumably left with his mother while he was in India, and again when he remarried), and the new surname spelled wrong. (And so mistranscribed in 1901 it took me months to find that, too -- when you don't know personal details like place of birth, which I didn't until I found that census entry, you're searching blind.) Marries in London in 1883 as JAM, and lives as JAM the rest of his life, and children's, and grandchildren's, and I guess he now has grx3 grandchildren still carrying on the totally fake name!

So it looks like right after his wife's death in 1873, he signed up to go to India. (The India bit was the only actual family knowledge there was -- it was just that I didn't have it.) Deserted when war with Afghanistan started in 1878. Adopted the name his sister had already used, when he returned, and hid out.

His brother-in-law, who appears to have come into his quite large inheritance (my gr-grfather was the manual labourer in the family, I have no idea how that happened to me) and blown it on the horses, adopted a long-ago version of his surname and told his kids they'd been born in Scotland. Although he told the 1891 enumerator the kids and his brand new "wife" had been born in another country altogether. They then scattered to the winds, with their new name and birthplace and no idea what their name actually was or where they were born, I presume, from finding one of them in a record in South Africa 15 years later ...


So yes, these things do happen, very much. I mean, surely not just in my family!!

Do you have all the kids' birth certificates except JR/RJ's? I think that's necessary, just to be sure: what father was named / whether a father was named. Otherwise we don't even know for certain that Jane and Robert were together before 1881 -- but I'm assuming you do have birth certs.

As for records of deserters, abandon all hope. I did consult someone here about searching at Kew, but that will wait until I retire. And I have a definite name!

Military desertion is just one probably unlikely scenario. Marital desertion and creditors are others, possibly more likely.


You'll forgive me - these are the tales that grab my grey cells, so you may not have heard the last from me yet. ;)

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/localnews/Hospital-closure-ends-an-era.3672872.jp

Cookridge Convalescent Hospital was opened in 1869 to provide a place for patients who had been treated at Leeds General Infirmary to continue their recovery.


does this help at all???

Where did Maria come from?

Name: Maria B Starmer
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1889
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Robert
Mother's Name: Jane
Gender: Female
Where born: Leeds, Yorkshire, England

marriage? --

Marriages Mar 1923
Lawrance George S Starmer Leeds 9b 785
Starmer Maria B Lawrance Leeds 9b 785


Ah, okay; they were away for a time.

Births Jun 1889
Starmer Maria Betsy Holbeck 9b 343

Everything helps, BG! Hadn't got around to googling, so that answers that nicely.

Could have been from an injury, more likely from an illness, I imagine. The men on the same page at the hospital in 1881 are mostly tradesmen of some sort, pretty much. I suppose there would have been a charge for time in a convalescent hospital!

One reason we'd never heard of my gr-grfather's real family was that the TB got 'em all, pretty much. Wife and older brother in early 20s, probably other brother before that and the littler ones who died in childhood, daughter at 19, niece at 16, probably sister ...

I only have my great grand mothers birth cetificate Florence (Florry Flossie on census) Robert shown as father. Maria is family name from Jane. She had a sister Maria and her mother was Maria. In fact most of the names with the exception of my great grandmother and sister Ada and Amy (although Ada & Amy popular Starmer names in Cosby generally) are sibs of Jane. In total Robert & Jane had 8 children. Holbeck is in south Leeds. The family moved around a lot and each census / certificate is a different address. Maria registered her father's death and by coincidence or other married a year later - perhaps she was a carer. She would have been about 33 /34 at the time. I have also found a birth for Olive D Lawrance in Leeds but not pursued this side further.Jane died in 1926 I think but I have not applied for this yet. My grandma who died 10 years ago says that Jane did strange things and I think she may have been in an asylum prior to her death. Robert & Jane buried together along with Son James in Leeds. Not been to grave but manuscript has his surname as Starman but that could be typo. Only got this info this week and snow permitting will go over this weekend as I live in Leeds not a huge journey.

Jane in 1871 (her mother was Maria, btw):


Name: Jane Starman
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation: Servant
Where born: Cosby, Leicestershire, England
Civil Parish: All Saints
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
Town: Leicester
County/Island: Leicestershire


complete list of kids from 1891 (except deceased Robert John):

Robert Starmer 47
Jane Starmer 44
Amy Starmer 15
Flossy Starmer 13
James Starmer 11
Ada Starmer 9
Arthur Starmer 6
Willie Starmer 4
Maria Starmer 1

All born in Leeds district except Maria.


Okay, Starm* events in Leeds, complete list to 1890 -- known yours are asterisked.


Marriages Jun 1866
STARMER James Leeds 9b 694

Births Jun 1867
Starmer Edwin James Leeds 9b 441

Births Mar 1872
STARMER William Austin Leeds 9b 441

Births Jun 1875
* Starmer Amy Leeds 9b 453

Births Sep 1877
* STARMER Florence Leeds 9b 508

Births Sep 1878
? Starmer Frederick Waite Leeds 9b 601

Births Sep 1879
* Starmer James Leeds 9b 456

Births Jun 1882
* Starmer Ada Leeds 9b 462

Births Jun 1884
* Starmer Arthur Leeds 9b 497

Births Sep 1886
* STARMER Willie Leeds 9b 458

Deaths Dec 1887
* Starmer John Robert 14 Leeds 9b 314


I imagine the Frederick was yours and died in early childhood.


Now, there's a rather sharp dividing line between the first set of events, which aren't yours, and the second set, which are yours.

Aha. Not quite so. Parents of Frederick:

Marriages Jun 1866
BOTTOMLEY Selina Leeds 9b 694
Raynar John Leeds 9b 694
> STARMER James Leeds 9b 694
> Waite Ann E Leeds 9b 694


Jane's household in Cosby in 1851:

William Sturman 40
Maria Sturman 39
Mary Sturman 19
> James Sturman 17
Elizabeth Sturman 15
Ann Sturman 11
Maria Sturman 6
Jane Sturman 3


Drat. Good scenario down the drain. The James Starmer who married in Leeds wasn't Jane's brother. In 1871:

Name: James Starmer
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Ann
Where born: Northants, Northamptonshire, England
Civil Parish: Leeds

James Starmer 26
Elizabeth Ann Starmer 32
Edwin James Starmer 3


And we can definitely rule out those earlier children as being Jane's / Robert's.


I do wonder about Robert actually being from Leicestershire rather than just having adopted that as a birthplace of convenience if he was there, say in 1871.

Wiiliam and Frederick Starmer are the sheet music people that emigrated to America along with parents James & Ann, Edwin stayed in UK. Lots of info on them and sheet music on google etc. Havn't found a link with my Starmer's but interesting that James was born in Northmapton as possible birth entry for Robert Starmer 1844 is in same area. Will look at Census info for 51 /61 and see if James and Robert are in deed brothers and sack the leicester link. Not as intriguing as changed names though. Also note number of spelling variations of Starmer , Sturmer, Starman etc.

Oops! I keep wandering off in mid-post composition, and then coming back and making pronouncements like "her mother was Maria" or "here he is in 1881" when you've already been there and done that. ;)

Was just about to go looking for that James in earlier censuses.

Have also had a bit of a poke at FreeREG, but there's nothing there of interest yet.

Can I just say you two have got me absolutely fascinated, much more interesting than my family tree. Hope you solve the mystery

Alison