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Well -I cant believe this still going -surely Nerine has removed all other possibilities and I too cant see what more proof is needed -why not apply for the birth cert of the 1864 Hannah and see what it says re mother?

Plus you have the death cert
How much more Proof do you need

I think it would be best don't you ?
She would have been christened in 1864 not 1870
she has been reg you have the number why would they give the reg; number if there is't one

she did show up in 1871 she was still alive then
richard was the boatman then.
It is not elizabeth Jones
It is Elizabeth Alton that married Richard in Liverpool



Marriages Mar 1859 (>99%)
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Alton Elizabeth Liverpool 8b 1
Hardman Emma Liverpool 8b 1
Townson James Liverpool 8b 1
Worthington Richard James Liverpool 8b 1


If this is Richard he would have been 17
and there was a richard who died in 1864 liverpoole

According to Orkskirk Registry Office she still could have been registered in a church register or parish register even though they were supposed to have been registered in the bdm. Even if I can get her christening cert. it will show me her mother`s name. I am going to try to get over to Southport either this week or next and try some of the church and parish records
Ev

Checked 1871 census for Elizabeth Jones but cannt find her married to a Richard Worthington.
Ev

Why doesnt Richard farm owner`s wife show up on the 1871 census if she only died in 1877
Ev

But there are no Hannahs born in 1870

Gillian
You say the farmers son could not be Hannahs father because he would have only been 10 yrs when she was born. That is if she was born in 1864, but she was born in 1870 so he would have be been 16 and old enough.
Ev

i looked a t the 1881 census found Richard on the farm on his own he was 62 years old making his birth year 1819 add on 20 years and that gives you a marriage of 1839 He married Margery then , I believe now that he went back to farming after his wife died
Margery or (margaret) died sept 1877 Omnskirk
cert number 8b 487
all the children would of been working by then Hannah was 17 years old they would be somewhere else
Hannah 1864 is that child and would of remembered her father on the farm as his last job when she got married
but i am sure he worked as a boatman in between 1841 untill 1871 or till his wife died in 1877
and returned to farming and continued

HANNAH is the Daughter of Richard and Margery
not Richard the son as i thought But i needed to check Richard the son out.
the son Richard married in liverpool and the 2yr old Richard born liverpoole is propbebly his son

Yes i know Ellen was born 1887 i put her bith on the thread Evaline



This one




Births Dec 1887 (>99%)
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Worthington Ellen Ormskirk 8b 821






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Marriages Jun 1896 (>99%)
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Peet Hugh Ormskirk 8b 1302
RIMMER Jane Ormskirk 8b 1302
Wareing Jeffrey Ormskirk 8b 1302
Worthington Hannah Ormskirk 8b 1302

By the way Ellen was born on 30th November 1887 and registered on 12th December 1887 Her mother was given as Hannah Worthington Domestic Servant and it was her who registered the birth and it says she lived in Sollom, Tarleton. This is from the birth certificate issued by the Ormskirk Registry Office
Ev

By the way Ellen was born on 30th November 1887 and registered on 12th December 1887 Her mother was given as Hannah Worthington Domestic Servant and it was her who registered the birth and it says she lived in Sollom, Tarleton. This is from the birth certificate issued by the Ormskirk Registry Office
Ev

Hi Nerine
I have today spoken to a cousin`s wife living in Banks who asures me that Hannah`s father was a farmer on his fathers farm and not a boatman. I am going to speak to another cousin later today to see if she has any info on Hannah`s mother`s name as that is all I need. The last of Ellen`s children died 5 weeks ago. I`m told the farm was in the family for donkey`s years but there was never any mention of a boat.
Ev.

I think i have it this time
Richard married an Elizabeth in liverpool 1n 1859 they had a son Richard born the same qtr 1859 i think that was the 2 year old in the 1861 census Richard and Elizabeth must have been elsewhere on census 1861 Richard died in liverpool and so did baby Richard both in 1864 1/sept qtr 1 /june qtr thats why baby Richard was not on 1871 census with Hannah And of cause Richard had died by 1871
The 1871 census says Esther was the granddaughter I think it should have said Hannah I think they were both grandaughters but esther from another child of theirs.

I found a death for Elizabeth 1878 making her about 5 years older than Richard she died ormskirk ,makes sence
I think on census night 1871 Elizabeth was elseware working maybe and Hannah was just staying with her Grand parents
Can you look for Elizabeth in Ormskik in 1871 to see where she was

dec 1878
WORTHINGTON Elizabeth 65 Ormskirk 8b 593



found this death for Elizabeth possible wife of Richard
about 5 years older than him

baby Richard Worthington from the 1861 census

Births Mar 1859 (>99%)
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WORTHINGTON Richard Liverpool 8b 71
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Marriages Mar 1859 (>99%)
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Alton Elizabeth Liverpool 8b 1
Hardman Emma Liverpool 8b 1
Townson James Liverpool 8b 1
Worthington Richard James Liverpool 8b 1

Evaline does this make sence to you .This is what i have come up with.

The census 1841 to 1871 are the same family

1841 census
Richard worthington age 20 ag/lab born about 1820
margaret age 18

1851 census
Richard the son born Ormskirk 1841


1861 census family movig around (liverpool)
Richard age 2 appears born liverpool.
there are 2 deaths in liverpool for Richard worthington
1/ sept qtr 1864
2/June qtr 1864
these deaths could be father and son
the richard born 1841 and the possible son born 1859 thats why the baby Richard did not appear on the 1871 census

1871 census

Hannah is living with her Grandparents
It says next to Esther who is the same age grand daughter i think that should have been next to
Hannah
I think that they took Hannah in when their son Richard Died in Liverpool
If we can find his wife,maybe we will find that she died around the same time
OR

She was elseware on census day,maybe working and Hannah and herself did live together but Hannah just stayed with the grandparents while she was away.
try to find Elizabeth in 1871

looking at the 1871 census

Hannah 1864 her sister is called Ellen

surely that is not a coincedence

Hannah could have called her daughter after her sister don't you think
and also people changed jobs just like today ,They went where the work was. Maybe he went back to farming before Hannah left home ,
I think we have searched all resorses and the well is dry

The farmers son was b Richard James Worthington 1854 Jun Q Ormskirk and died 1873 Dec Q Ormskirk
Is it likely that (a) he would have fathered a child at 10 years old -even 16 is unlikely (b) would not his full name have been known by Hannahs mother (c) if he fathered an illegitimate child shortly before dying would not his family have taken her in,especially if she had been given his surname?
Sorry but I am still convinced Nerine and I had the right Hannah in the boatmans daughter