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Dea
Of course I will let you know, though it may take me a while to sort out it out. I am on holiday next week, Hubby has banned me from taking laptop!, so will be itching to get started when I come back.

I have ordered one cert to begin with and will see what that says and whether I will have to order all three damn things before I get the right one.

Thanks again Dea for all your hard work, I just hope it has been worth it.

Cheryl

OOOOhhh - another £7 hits the dust .......

I DO hate that sound !

Let me know how you get on!

Dea x

Dea
I haven't physically got it yet, but I have ordered it.
According to Free BMD Jemima marries under the name Cooper, I really hope the cert tells me something differant, a late, another formerly would be great, but that will probably drive me scatty too !

Cheryl

Dea
I assumed her mother was Jemima as this is who she is with in the later census reports and they describe Harriet as daughter of Jemima and Abraham Bates, but we already know she is not the daughter of Abraham.

I am just going to have to pick one of the three 1859 births certs and take it from there, though you can bet your life the last one I order will be the one I want or that it will prove that she was illegitamate after all this.

Here goes, eeny, meeny, miney mo!

Thanks again for your help, this has slowly driven me up the wall, I think I owe you a bottle of Brandy at least!

Cheers!
Cheryl

Have you got Jemima's marriage cert to Abraham?

I think I have lost track here.

Dea x

Cheryl,

I'm on the brandy - get yourself a glass of something !!

On 1861 - I read that Harriet is 1 - the daughter of Jemima who is the daughter of Anne ??????????

Dea x

OOOpps - it DOES say she is daughter to Anne - I think I was blinded by the fact that you had her mother as Jemima so just assumed she was hers ! (she probably is though, but NEVER asume!! - golden rule in this game!)

Dea x

Dea

Or
Going off on a tangent again

The 1861 census describes Harriet as being 1 and the daughter of Anne.

She is a bit old to be having a child but it is possible I suppose, then Harriet's father would indeed be Edward.

This is giving me a headache!!!!!

Cheryl

Dea

Do you think its possible that Jemima could have been transcribed as Dina????????
I have found a Edward and Anne Cooper in Birmingham area in 1841 HO 107/983/ 7, with a daughter Dina.
What do you think?
Cheryl

I have that also - I think she probably WAS illegitimate - daughter of Harriet (mother Ann)

We just REALLY need to find Ann + Harriet on 1841.

I am struggling !

Dea x

Dea
Just a thought

IGI have a baptism of a Jemima Cooper in 1837 (which if the census reports are to be believed is the right year)

Bapt 19 March 1837 Ettingshall, Staffs
Mother Anne
Father EDWARD Cooper

I do wonder if a little bit of truth bending went on and that Harriet was illegitamate after all.

Cheryl

Dea

Thanks agian for your time and patience.

I am trying to track down the Jemima Woodissa (e)
that married an Edward Cooper in 1854, no luck there either.

If a child was illegitamate, but the father was known would the father's name appear on the birth cert?. I am just wondering if Harriet was illegitamate after all (I originally suspected this). When Jemima marries Abraham in 1864, she uses the name Cooper, not another name, and if the census is to be believed, she was unmarried in 1861.

More stones to throw in the pot and muddy the waters!!!

Cheryl

I am trying to follow Ann (Jemima's mother on 1861.)

She DOES appear to be her mother (rather than m-i-law, which I also suspected) according to 1851 census but that doesn't rule this Jemima out.

I am trying to locate mother Ann on 1841 but having no luck at the moment - I will keep looking

Dea x

Dea

I have had a wander through the death registers for 1854-1860, what a surprise there are 3 of them!
one 4th quarter 1860 and two 4th quarter 1859.

It is looking more likely that the census of 1861 is wrong and that Jemima was a widow rather than unmarried, or do you think I am pushing the bounds of logic a bit too far.

So far I have a change of name in the census from Harriet Cooper to Harriet Bates,due to the possible remarriage of her mother Jemima to Abraham Bates.

Then a marriage cert of Harriet Cooper to Edward Giles not Joynes. If this cert is to be believed, Harriets' father is Edward, who appears to have died when Harriet was 1.

There appears to be no other children of the marriage between Jemima and Edward for me to check.

I do wonder if I have gone a bit far?

Cheryl

I am working on it as we speak!

Dea x

Dea

Had a bit of a re think, tried the 1859 births instead of the 1858, Damn!, there are 3 Harriet Cooper's born in the latter part of 1859!.

I can't find IGI records for any of them. Nor can I find a death of Edward between 1852 and 1861.

I was hoping that IF I could find a death, this would then explain the remarriage to Abraham Bates.

To be honest I am losing the will to live on this one, these people just don't want to be found I think.

Cheryl

Dea
Sorry forgot to add that on the cert ( if this is the right one) it gives Harriet's father as Edward and his occupation is unfortunatley "labourer".

Still trying to track them through the Cenus. I can find a Jemima & Edward Cooper together on the 1881 census
Edward 40 a Puddler
Jemima 36
William 14
Alfred 10
Sarah 12
Mary E 6
Emma 4
Alice 1

I don't think this is right one though as Harriet would have been 22 ish at this time and neither Edward or Jemima appear to be old enough to have a 22 year old daughter, and certainly not old enough to have married in 1852.

This one gets harder the more I look at it!
Cheryl

Dea
Thanks for taking a look, Sorry I never got chance to even turn the PC ON yesterday never mind think about the Coopers.

The marriage looks very promising I must admit, I wonder if good old Jemima married three times, to Edward, George and Abraham . The only birth I can find of a Harriet Cooper involving a Jemima says she was married to George Cooper not Edward, maybe I will have to dig lots further.

This will keep me busy all day now.

Thanks ever so much for taking a look, will let you know how I get on.

I can see the credit card getting a bit of a bashing again!

Cheryl

Nudge for more help please

Dea x

Does Harriet's marriage cert give an occupation for Edward??

Dea x

P.S. There seems to be a family name of 'Woodisse' in the area at that time?

Dea x

What about this marriage instead of the one to George??

Marriages Sep 1854

BRINDLEY Louisa Stoke T. 6b 252
***Cooper Edward Stoke T 6b 252
Humphryes Joseph Stoke T 6b 252
***Woodissa Jemima Stoke T 6b 252

Havn't been able to follow it back yet though but worth a little explore?

Dea x