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I have the marriage cert of my Gt Grandmother Elizabeth Ellen Aldred nee Cooper dated 27/03/1891. It states her father as Frederick Cooper. The wedding took place in Belper, Derbyshire.

I also have her birth cert stating she was born 31/05/1871 at Chapel Hollow, Belper, Derbyshire. This again states her father as Frederick and her mother as Mary Anne, I am afraid her maiden name is unreadable (typical, to me it reads Makl?????).

My problem is I can't find any evidence on the census entries of Elizabeth prior to her marriage, apart from a possible 1881 entry that says Nurse Child. Her mother and father seem to be equally elusive.

I was hoping to find other siblings, so maybe I can order their certs to see if her mother's maiden name is more readable on them, or the very least to find out how old her parents were and where they lived.

I am well and truly stuck, could anyone help?
Many Many Thanks
Cheryl

Parents marriage

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

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Marriages Jun 1864 (>99%)
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Cooper Frederick Belper 7b 667
Wass Mary Ann Belper 7b 667

Andy

Andrew
Wass?, well its a possibilty, the writing on the cert is truly atrocious. Its a start anyway.
I just can't understand the llack of census info?, Frederick is still alive in 1891 when Elizabeth Ellen marries, but just can't seem to find him at all on the census returns, well not married to Mary Anne anyway.
Thanks for info
Cheryl

Andrew
Just to let you know I have looked on the 1861 census and found the Wass's, surprise, surprise in Chapel Hollow, Belper!!!, so this is definately looking more positive. Now all I have to do is sort out Frederick!
Thanks again for help
Cheryl

May be they are in an institution where only the initials are used to list the patients/prisoners/inmates.

Heather Posi
That's certainly a possibility too, something has to explain the lack of info. This is the last branch of my tree and I have never come across no census info before.
I will order the marriage cert that Andrew suggested, that at least might give me an age to start working on for Frederick.
Thanks again for suggestion.
Cheryl

Certainly an elusive family. Can't see anything.

Andy

Cheryl,

If you would like to e-mail a copy of the birth cert to me I could see if I can make anything more of the name for you ?

I will pm my e-mail address.

Regards,

Dea x

Andrew
I thought it was just me!, trust me to leave the hard one until the last!.
A couple of people on Ancestry have a Mary Wass in their trees, but married to very differant people.
I will just have to order the cert you kindly provided and hope to God that it is the right one.
Thanks again for trying.
Cheryl

??possible death indexName: Frederick Cooper
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Year of Registration: 1898
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 57
District: Belper
County: Derbyshire
Volume: 7b
Page: 365


what was his occupation on the marriage cert?

What is the occupation of Frederick Cooper on the birth and marriage cert?

Not sure whether this is relevant, but in Chapel Hollow, in 1881 were the Tranters. Father Frederick (widower) , daughter Elizabeth 10. Actual census records name as Tranter too....but quite a coincidence ?

Elizabeth Tranter
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Frederick
Gender: Female
Where born: Belper, Derbyshire, England

Civil Parish: Belper
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England

Street address: Chapel Hollow
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Belper
Sub registration district: Belper
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth Tranter 10
Frederick Tranter 40
Frederick Tranter 13
Job Tranter 17
Kate Tranter 15



I also found a death for a Mary Ann Cooper in Belper Dec. 1877.

May be unconnected......???

Janice & Glitter Baby
Frederick's occupation on Elizabeth Ellen's birth cert is Nail Maker, however on her marraige certs it is Collier.
Hope this helps.
Thanks for trying to help.
Cheryl

Susan
Thanks for info re Tranters. I have looked on Ancestry as a few people have a Mary Wass, but theirs marries a Frederick Tranter, not a Frederick Cooper, bit of a drastic name change, or I am being naive?
I have even trawled all through the returns for Chapel Hollow, but found only one Cooper in 1861, and he is William, I think, aged 60 something.
Thanks for help
Cheryl

Susan
Death record maybe the right one, the only census info I have found prior to her marraige to be a possible is as a Nurse Child (adopted or fostered) in 1881. If her mother was dead, this may well explain the adoption.
Cheryl

1871 census

Interesting....ALL the names fit and a Wass as well


1871 England Census
about Job Tranter
Name: Job Tranter
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Frederick
Mother's Name: Mary Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Belper, Derbyshire, England
Civil Parish: Belper
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: Belper
Sub registration district: Belper
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Household schedule number: 117
Household Members: Name Age
Frederick Tranter 30 Nailmaker
Frederick Tranter 2
Job Tranter 7
Kate Tranter 3
Mary Ann Tranter 28
Sarah Ann Tranter 9
Joseph Wass 28 Brother in Law Nailmaker

All born Belper

But why Tranter and not Cooper??


Andy

Andy
Yes all the names do fit, as to why Tranter and not Cooper, well I haven't the foggiest. I do wonder if this is the couple others have on Ancestry.
Really stumped now!!!
Cheryl

Children seem to have been registered under Cooper


Births Sep 1864 (>99%)
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COOPER Job Belper 7b 418


Andy

Frederick Tranter in 1881 was also a nailer, so another coincidence ?

I agree the names don't seem too similar - but the coincidences are increasing all the time.....Wass connection especially. At least you could trawl Tranters and see if there's a clue in the past ?

I have a nurse child in my family too - she was still with them 20 years later !

Andy
Thanks, maybe this is my couple after all, seems a bit odd to change name to Tranter though. Even with a really thick Derbyshire accent they don't even sound the same.
Its times like this I wish I had a time machine to try and find out what the heck was going on!!!.
I wonder if Frederick's mother was a Tranter originally?
I can see more months of searching on this one.
Thanks so much for all your help, I would never have figured this one out by myself.
Cheryl