Find Ancestors

I am trying to find my grandfather - all I know is that he was born in Lancashire and is supposed to have lied about his age in order to join the army in order to fight in the Boer War in South Africa. d. If this is true he would have been born around 1886. After the end of the war he liked SA so much he decided to stay. I have a copy of his South African ID card which is in the name of Allen-Newby. He dropped the Allen bit of the surname as it was too long to write when signing his name!

He had a printing business in Cape Town South Africa and was married to Nellie Tommis born in 1893 in Laywood Yorkshire. As far as I can remember he died around 1966 or 1967 in Cape Town South Africa. I have managed to trace a lot of Nellie's family but have reached a brick wall with "Pop" as he was known in the family. Any help would be greatly appreciated

Hi Hilary, is it his family before he left England that you're trying to trace?

And what does JWJ stand for?

I'm afraid I dont know what the JWJ stands for - major part of the problem! As I cant find him, I am at a standstill with trying to find his family

????????????


Boer War 1899-1902 - Soldier details

Name: NEWBY, JW
Rank: Private
Soldier number: 1113
Unit: 1 Battalion The York And Lancaster Regiment
Notes:
Age:
Literary references: War Record of the York & Lancaster Regt. 266,


Medal roll (from National Archives WO100 series):
Roll Page
200 0

Have you got his marriage certificate for further information?
Thanks

Thanks Ann - this gives me at least one lead to follow up

Sorry Patchem - no marriage certificate

Have you tried to find his marriage or death, and been unsuccessful?
Have you asked for help (as I know nothing about SA records)?
Is it definitely JWJ (and no idea for any of the initials)?
Thanks

yes its definitely J W J on the ID card I have and I have no idea what they stand for. My parents are both deceased so cant ask them. The information I have on his wife is very accurate so I know what I am looking for there (i have a copy of her school leaving certificate and have found her in the various cencus), but there is no record in the British BMD of her marriage - I am fairly sure she married him in South Africa. My dad was born in SA so that would tally.

I know JWJ definitely died in South Africa (as did his wife) and there doesn't seem to be an on line access to SA records. I can vaguely remember my mum getting a letter about his death c 1967. I think I 'm hoping for a miracle here!!

Not a help with J W J, but I was wondering if this was Nellie.

Passenger lists leaving UK 1890-1960
Name: Miss N TOMMIS
Date of departure: 21 May 1927
Port of departure: Southampton
Destination port: Cape
Destination country: South Africa
Date of Birth: 1893 (calculated from age)
Age: 34
Marital Status:
Sex: Female
Occupation: Manageress
Notes:
Passenger recorded on: Page 2 of 10
Ship: ARUNDEL CASTLE
Official Number: 145175
Master's name: Capt J George
Steamship Line: Union-Castle Mail S S Co Ltd
Where bound: South Africa
Square feet: 3273
Registered tonnage: 11222
Passengers on voyage: 279


She then appears to return with a son, Leonard Allan, whose age has not been entered, intending to remain in England. Her last address in UK was 69 Caro? St, Ma???, Huddersfield.


UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
about Nellie Tommis
Name: Nellie Tommis
Birth Date: abt 1893
Age: 34
Port of Departure: Durban, South Africa
Arrival Date: 5 Dec 1927
Port of Arrival: Southampton, England
Ports of Voyage: Cape Town
Ship Name: Windsor Castle
Search Ship Database: View the 'Windsor Castle' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping line: The Union Castle Mail Steamship Company
Official Number: 146535


They both then returned to SA.

Passenger lists leaving UK 1890-1960
Name: Miss N TOMMIS
Date of departure: 16 June 1928
Port of departure: Southampton
Destination port: Cape
Destination country: South Africa
Date of Birth: 1893 (calculated from age)
Age: 35
Marital Status:
Sex: Female
Occupation: None
Notes:
Passenger recorded on: Page 2 of 9
The following people with the same last name travelled on this voyage: -
Mast L TOMMIS 1
Ship: KENILWORTH CASTLE
Official Number: 118433
Master's name: Capt G Owens
Steamship Line: The Union Castle Mail S S Co Ld
Where bound: South Africa
Square feet:
Registered tonnage: 7185
Passengers on voyage: 197

OMG alviegal - yes this is definitely Nellie and my dad Len - had no idea that they had come back to England THANK YOU SO MUCH!

You're welcome Hilary. Sorry I can't be of more help though.

The only thing is, if she went to SA in May 1927 and returned to UK in Dec 1927 with a baby, she must have been pregnant when she went over.

Liz

this could help find records if there are any ... not bmds, but other kinds of records

http://www.national.archives.gov.za/index.htm

SA national archives

Search National Automated Archival Information Retrieval System

http://www.national.archsrch.gov.za/sm300cv/smws/sm300dl

RSA - All Archives Repositories and National Registers of non-public records

http://www.national.archsrch.gov.za/sm300cv/smws/sm300gi?20110205000643B9743D05%26DB%3DRSAE

(and there are other archives)


oh look what I have found

DEPOT KAB
SOURCE CSC
TYPE LEER
VOLUME_NO 2/1/1/930
SYSTEM 01
REFERENCE 77
PART 1

DESCRIPTION
ILLIQUID CASE. RESTITUTION OF CONJUGAL RIGHTS.
JOHN WILLIAM JOSEPH ALLEN NEWBY <<<<
VERSUS
HILDA HARRIET NEWBY, BORN KITCHENHAM.

STARTING 19220000
ENDING 19220000


his name ???


also, his military records may be at Kew

I suspected that a relation of mine had stayed in SA after I found his name in the Imperial yeomanry for the Anglo-Boer war, and I found one document about him in the SA national archives and also a search at Kew for me found his military records which gave address, next of kin and so on

Well done Chrissie! I have been going ga ga with this one, was just going to post regarding Len being a Tommis, guess we know now.

Annx

a search of the SA national archives site for hilda + harriet + newby reveals that they had some ongoing marital problems

it seems like maybe she sued for divorce and he countersued for restitution of conjugal rights



DEPOT KAB
SOURCE CSC
TYPE LEER
VOLUME_NO 2/1/1/949
SYSTEM 01
REFERENCE 391
PART 1

DESCRIPTION
ILLIQUID CASE. DIVORCE.
HILDA HARRIET NEWBY, BORN KITCHENHAM
VERSUS
JOHN WILLIAM JOSEPH ALAN NEWBY.

STARTING 19220000
ENDING 19220000


those two records were both in 1922

and then in 1935 it was still going on ?


DEPOT KAB
SOURCE CSC
TYPE LEER
VOLUME_NO 2/1/1/1276
SYSTEM 01
REFERENCE 257
PART 1

DESCRIPTION
ILLIQUID CASE. RESTITUTION OF CONJUGAL RIGHTS.
JOHN WILLIAM JOSEPH NEWBY
VERSUS
HILDA HARRIET NEWBY, (BORN KITCHENHAM).

STARTING 19350000
ENDING 19350000



does it seem that maybe he and Nellie weren't married, and perhaps she was surprised to find he already was?


oops you slipped in there Ann, yes indeed, lol.

Hilary, does this relate to your Len ?

DEPOT KAB
SR/SN 000/00
SOURCE 1/CT
TYPE LEER
VOLUME_NO 349
SYSTEM 01
REFERENCE 18/41
PART 1
DESCRIPTION
ADOPTION OF CHILDREN TOMMIS , LEONARD ALLAN MELLOR
STARTING 1941
ENDING 1941

YES YES YES - This is definitely my dad - my mum used to say she thought there was a skeleton here, and now you have confirmed it for me

Chrissie - does this mean we are related by marriage?
Hilary

So Nellie went out May 1927, coming back into Uk Dec 1927 then returning with a 1 year old Len in June 1928?????

Food for thought??

Was nellie already pregnant?
Had JWJ been in the UK?

Annx

me? heavens no ! We just both have rellies who stayed in SA after that war, mine was a distant rellie I had just been very curious to know what happened to, and once I confirmed that he stayed in SA I did manage to find some of his descendants born there.

You can get copies of all those records from the various archives that hold them in SA ..... is that where you live? if so it will be a lot easier for you than it was for me, lol

although I had tremendous good luck, one of the archives I wrote to, to ask how to get copies, said well if you give us your postal address we will send them to you !

if you look around the SA national archives site it will tell you what various things mean like KAB in your dad's adoption record, to tell you where the document is held

I guess that means that once JWJ sorted out his marital woes he and Nellie probably did marry and he adopted Len.