Find Ancestors

This is an ongoing bone of contention - apparently with me on one side and the rest of the world on the other.

To start with, the rule that can be read by anyone who chooses to read the rules here:

"Before posting, please read the guidelines for message board use."

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/genesreunited.asp?wci=grstatic&type=guidelines

"Don't include an email address, postal address, phone number, the address of any website, *****or any other personal information about yourself or any other person***** in material that appears on the service"

A person's name is personal information. A person's mother's birth surname is personal information. A person's spouse's name and children's names are personal information. A person's date and place of birth are personal information.

If the person in question is living, those things are all information that can be sensitive, and that s/he MAY NOT WANT being plastered all over an internet discussion board without his/her knowledge, let alone consent.

Here is the part that so many people just do not want to grasp.

That information can be found at sites like Ancestry by searching birth and marriage indexes, IF one knows what one is looking for.

Names in people's trees here, and the names of the tree owners, can be found by doing searches at this site, IF one is a member and knows what one is looking for.

*** Information in POSTS ON THE DISCUSSION BOARDS on this site *** can be found by INTERNET SEARCH ENGINES.

The information in the GRO index cannot be found by search engines. Names in trees here, and the names of tree owners here, CANNOT be found by search engines.

The names in trees at this site are put there by people who are presumed to have the consent of the people whose names and birthdates are involved.

Information in posts on these boards is put here WITHOUT their consent, or even their knowledge.

The supreme case in point:

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1138175&px=13

"Hi [name] this is your big sister writing to you from [place] my name now is [name] thank you and our cousin so much for all the effort and time you have put into your search,its just by chance i was on the computer late last night and just googled in my birth name, well what a shock i got when my name popped up!"

A good shock for her it seems -- possibly NOT a good shock for someone else.

So.

If GR in its wisdom thinks that posts in which people looking for, say, a birth parent put that person's name and other personal details on these boards, well, so be it.

But we regular answerers of questions can surely exercise a little discretion in the interests of the people who are being talked about behind their backs - and our fellow members of GR.

There is absolutely no need to do a tree search for someone and then inform them of the full names of the people who have a person in their tree. The other member will have to do that search anyway in order to contact those people, and can perfectly well see their names for him/herself when that is done. People use "friendly" names here to identify themselves, as directed by GR when they complete their account details, and may not even know that their full real names are disclosed to anyone who clicks. Why is it our job to disclose them on their behalf?

When someone is searching for information that involves a person born after 1920 or so, that person is very possibly still living.

To put that person's birth or marriage details here -- parents' names, spouse's name, date of marriage -- is completely unfair. Let alone the names of their children born a generation later.

My uncle married a few weeks before his first child was born. My cousin only learned this last year, when the parents admitted that they were celebrating their 49th anniversary, not their 50th.

What if their lives had been discussed here, and my cousin happened to have googled the family names? Why should their family confidences -- her birth, her parents' marriage, the obvious facts that info discloses -- be discussed behind their backs and without their knowledge, and found by her, being discussed by strangers, on an internet search? (I think the whole lot of them are a royal pain, but it is NOT my business to make their decisions for them.)

We can all think of far more sensitive situations than that, I am sure.

So.

The PM -- private message -- system here works quite well. There is NO REASON to put information like that in a thread on the discussion boards. In fact, given the practice of so many new members here, who haven't a clue how to use the boards, there's a better than even chance they'll never see it that way anyhow.

Why not send the information by private message??? with a post in the thread saying generally what info has been sent.

Laziness? Show-offiness? Total lack of concern for others' privacy?

I dunno. And I simply don't know where the resistance to respecting privacy comes from. Feel free to tell me.

Hi Janey

You sound very upset..........take things as the saying goes "Waters off a ducks back"

We know the rules on this site, but some people want more info to be displayed.........

If Genes don't like any message........... they are very quick to respond and DELETE.

Personally ............If its private stuff ......i send PM

So life is tooooooooooo short to get upset or wrangled.

I confess to having posted personal information, but it's usually in the excitement of the moment, then I have to go back and edit it.

Well, Netty, I'm not upset. I'm peeved at the disregard for others' privacy, and the snotty responses I get when I point out how unnecessary it is for certain info to be published here. I get peeved at having assumptions made about my emotional state too, btw, or getting uninvited advice about what to do about it. This thread isn't about me, y'know?


I wasn't talking to the management of this site.

I was talking to my fellow members, and hoping to stimulate just a little concern for the real people whose personal lives get dissected here.


Lewella got right overexcited the other day and copied and pasted the birth details of a 12-yr-old! And deleted them just as promptly when she saw what she had done. ;)

Dear JaneyCanuck

I agree with you.

I am suspicious of requests about trying to find living relatives, particularly
ones that involve children or sometimes parents.

People who use GR may not be what they seem so care must be taken.

For example, an ex-boyfriend/hisband/father etc could be seeking to harass.

There are many other examples of people who want information on others but not for genuine family research purposes.

I tell people to use the GR search trees, but then its up to to them and if the person replies.

I do not like personal information being given out. I have come across a lot of people who do give these details out.

IT IS NOT SAFE TO DO SO.

I do not mind helping or offering a bit of advice but on the sensitive matter of disclosing other peoples personal information, I totally agree with you.

By the way, I am not a crank because I am up late.
My kidney stones are playing up and cannot sleep!

Best wishes.
xx

Hi Janey

I know you are Peeved and in yor message ......people should be aware, but like i said not all people are the same. Ignore the snotty remarks thats where the saying comes from Waters off a Ducks back.........just ignore the remarks..............as long you are helping people..........thats what counts.

ttfn Netty:)))

Thank you Netty.

And glad to see some agreement, Elizabeth.

Sometimes one can tell when a poster seems genuine, but even then ... it's a bit of a responsibility, giving them the info that's easily findable if they knew how. I tend to go with giving it -- just doing it privately.

One ends up feeling like either the gatekeeper to the knowledge, if one knows where to get it and doesn't provide it, or the facilitator of possibly harmful consequences, even harmful for the asker.

We need a code of ethics!

The nice thing about codes of ethics, like doctors and lawyers have, is that they answer the delicate questions for you and tell you that as long as you follow the rules, you have done no 'wrong'. ;)

H JaneyCanuck


So from now on you do as i do and send PM messages and that way it always stay private between person to person.

nite nite Janey

off to bed & ttfn Netty:)))

Netty - I DO do that!!

Or I advise someone how to find the info themself, if it is at FreeBMD.

... And then someone comes along behind, and posts it in the thread.


My concern is not about what I do, it is about what others do.

And the concern is on behalf of the people whose personal lives are being chewed over in these threads, without their knowledge or consent!

I wouldn't want my and my family's personal details being published like this without my knowledge or consent. Maybe some here wouldn't care. But they can't speak for the people it's done to.

Hi Janey

I agree with you that personal information of living (or possibly living) people should not be posted in the open on this, or any other site.

In fact, I refuse to even think of helping people asking for information on living people.


I once googled my own names (maiden and married), and discovered that I could find myself in several places on the net. Some were OK, and were already in the public domain.

BUT one rather shocking one was to find a posting from the old Friends Reunited Message Boards that had been copied and pasted by someone on to another site entirely. It was showing up on that site, one that I had never visited.


For the uninitiated, Friends Reunited is the parent company of GR

What I object to is someone lecturing like JaneyCanuck AGAIN !!


REMEMBER the poster comes here for help not to be told off & has the power to DELETE the entire thread ONCE they have the info.

PLUS as I have ALREADY mentioned you have no idea of their age as
a lot are Silver Surfers !! Give them a break !!!


Also I am fed up with people telling the posters to go via PM ..............as I answer quite a few posts & the replies have no headers so I have the added trouble of finding the original thread for their replies to make sense !

You are ruining the spirit of helping others ...........give it a rest


UNLESS you want to drive us all away so you can have sole use of this website ???

We managed well enough before you popped up on here !!!



( Infamy, Infamy! They’ve all got it in for me! )

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1152500

is it me or does JaneyCanuck post on the above thread make no sense ??

No doubt she will read it again & either delete it or alter it so it does


"""My uncle married a few weeks before his first child was born. My cousin only learned this last year, when the parents admitted that they were celebrating their 49th anniversary, not their 50th"""

above is posted by JaneyCanuck on this thread

Practice what you preach/lecture springs to mind

More than half the babies born in Scotland last year were to unmarried parents - the first time they were in the majority.

The provisional figures from the General Register Office for Scotland showed there were 60,041 babies born last year.

Of those 30,055 - some 50.1% of all live births - were to unmarried parents.


WELCOME TO THE 21st CENTURY

Dear All

Before this seriously gets out of hand, the point is about the security and welfare of information for ALL Genes Reunited Members.

Some requests are not genuine.

If people are trying to find living relatives, they can be redirected to the appropriate support groups etc that deal with tracing genuine requests.

Please all think carefully when responding to requests for help.

Take care of yourselves and your families.

With best wishes to all.
xx

Thank you again, Elizabeth. It really is that simple.

Fairthorn, I'm curious what your problem with the excerpted passage from my post is. (Yes, yes, I know, it really is all about me.)

Do you know my name? Do you know my uncle's name? My cousin's name? Did anything I said disclose any information about any of those family members? Are any of them even in my tree here at GR? (Hint: no.)

Do you even know that the facts I outlined are true?? (They are, sez I, but how would you know?)

Have I ever given the name or any other identifying personal info about any living member of my family anywhere at GR? (Yes, everybody knows my mum and my sister are in treatment for cancer, but does anyone know who or where they are? Nope.)

So, what's your point?

It's really quite meaningless to say that one objects to being "lectured" when one simply has no defence to offer for doing something that is simply improper and unnecessary.

Posters can delete their threads? Certainly. Can anyone here know whether they will, or require that they do? No.

Posters come here for help. Information can be provided by PM. Anything else?

Some people are seniors. Information can be provided by PM. Anything else?

I have a horror of PMs myself. Connecting up threads and PMs is the bane of my existence here. But that inconvenience to myself is what I accept if I genuinely want to help someone in a situation where info is sensitive. I always put a specific surname in the header of the message I send. When I'm thinking, I also put the URL for the thread so I can track it back when I get a reply -- if I click on the name of the person who sends me a message, I can see a list of all previous correspondence.

As for the rest of your screeds, Fairthorn -- if you feel the need to engage in insulting personal commentary, take it to PM, 'k?

"No doubt she will read it again & either delete it or alter it so it does"

No doubt you have some basis for accusing me of dishonesty, and if you don't, YOU will delete that comment and apologize for it.

Leaping to Janey's defence LOL ( and at one time I admt I would not have done so ;) Janey says things very 'plainly' at times which some of us ...ie me lol...tend to couch in softer (rambling) tones.

But in what she says here she is quite right. I do lots of look ups , mostly on Ancestry when people have not the means to afford it or the experience to find their way around. If it is for living people I will send details via PM .

I haven't used the internet for long but it is incredibly easy to find details which should remain private.

re illegitimacy.... I understood Janey's post, to mean that a child may not wish to know he/she was conceived before the marriage ( illigitimacy is not the stigma it was even 50 years ago ).

Think the message is just to be cautious and respectful .

Rose x.

Dear All

People could we all try and calm down.

This is not helping matters and it has got out of hand and personal.

PLEASE WILL ALL CONCERNED STOP NOW AND CONCENTRATE ON THE ISSUE.

This thread was posted about the confidentality and security of personal information and how some people give out details that should not be given at all.

Could we all try and reach a consensus on how to deal with such requests in future so some basic rules can be followed by all?

Best wishes.
x

We have one point of pretty common ground to start with I think, Elizabeth.

Posters requesting help in locating minors should be gently informed that this is not the appropriate place for such inquiries.

-- The reason being that we have no way of knowing why a parent and child are separated, for instance, and there could be very good reason why the parent is not able to contact the child.

How's that?

Small, but a start. ;)

And hey, Rose! I only had 5000 characters to work with, so had to speak "plainly".

Hahaha. That's self-deprecating Canadian humour you see there. ;^)

I remember the days, 5 or so years ago when very little what was posted as replies to Trying To Find boards ........... except for census details and Registration details of 'ancestors' BDM's.

Certainly nothing was posted relating to somebody that could still be living.

Everything else relating to a possible living person was pm'd to the the 'owner' of the thread....and that person would reply to the original thread, saying that they had sent a pm.

However, if you are trying to find a living relative like a lot of us are doing now .......to find out further information of grandparent's siblings...then you have to put some information on the boards.

Many, including myself, have gone as far as they can with regards to tracing ancestors and are interested in finding living relatives...not just to discover family information but to share our ancestry with them and swap family photos.

The joy of finding somebody else on here ,who had and sent me a photo of one of my Grandma's brothers, was a delight to me..especially as my late Dad was the spitting image of him at the same age.

How did I find her? I posted a message asking if anybody knew the informant named on a death certificate I had. I also quoted the informant's address....which was not current but she recognised it from years ago.

.