Find Ancestors

trying to find Gazzjena or spelt Garrjena or Gazajned. born about 1854. Story goes she might have been born in France. Does any know of this woman or if not does anyone know if i can access french records.

Margaret

To find birth record for someone born in France, you would need to know where she was born, as records are held locally, rather than nationally. Did this person come to England? Have you found her on a census?

Hello Ann
Thanks for info. She appears on 1881 census. i have also sent off for wedding cert 1878 which may give me more info. no i dont know where she was born. family story is she ran away from parents in Paris. father was dentist. but how true all this is i dont know. i have been told that Gazzjena's daughter spoke fluent french. im asking older members of family that are left but surviving person is in 90's. Thanks again if you can think of anything else i would be pleased to hear from you.

Regards
Margaret

What place of birth is given on the 1881?

Who did she marry? The name sounds more Italian to me?

Is that her first name or surname? If her first name, what is her surname?

When/where was the marriage?

At the moment nothing is coming up with that as either a first name or surname on freebmd?

Was she CRAWFORD?

there is a marriage in 1878 in Brighton.

Marriages Mar 1878 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Crawford Gazajena Inness Brighton 2b 366

She is in Brighton in the 1871 and 1861 census too


1861
Charles Crawford abt 1822 Clifton, Gloucestershire, Head Brighton Sussex
Ellen Crawford abt 1838 Gateshead, Durham, Wife Brighton Sussex
Gazajena Crawford abt 1857 Manchester, Lancashire, Daughter
John C Crawford abt 1860 Brighton, Sussex, Son

Born Manchester then - not France. Still cant see the birth ref - can you Pete? Hmm,. the name Inness in the middle there - possibly pre the Crawford marriage?

Can't see parents marriage either.

Will check the LancsBMD site just in case they have some clues

Try Inness for the birth Pete (Im supposed to be working here - LOL!) Hubby is a good deal older than Ellen.

The Ramsay girl staying with them 1861 is the sister in law.

Charles Crawford 39
Ellen Crawford 23
Gazajena Crawford 4
John C Crawford 1
Margaret Ramsay 19





1878 marriage - would be nice if we had some input here??
Record
Elizabeth Constance Brett 1878 Jan-Feb-Mar Brighton Sussex, East Sussex
View Record
Gazajena Inness Crawford 1878 Jan-Feb-Mar Brighton Sussex, East Sussex
View Record
Herbert Evans 1878 Jan-Feb-Mar Brighton Sussex, East Sussex
View Record
Walter Warden Rayward 1878 Jan-Feb-Mar Brighton Sussex, East Sussex

I supposed to be working too!

I'll check back later

Interesting family in the 1851 census.

Name: Margaret A Inness
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John
Gender: Female
Where born: Newcastle Upon Tyne

Civil Parish: Westgate
Town: Newcastle
County/Island: Northumberland
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Sub-registration district: Westgate
ED, institution, or vessel: 3i

Household schedule number: 20
Household Members: Name Age
Ellen Inness 14
John Inness 46
Margaret A Inness

I think we should wait - well no, we should work - LOL until Margaret gets back and gives us the 1881 information which Ive had a quick look for but it doesnt jump out so I better do some paid work here :) We may have the completely wrong girl here.

Margaret - `1881 details please.

Nudge for Margaret

I want to play! Since I should be working too. ;)

From the info in that list of marriages, this is her in 1881:


Name: Gara Evans
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Herbert
Gender: Female
Where born: Brighton, Sussex, England

Civil Parish: Brighton
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England

Street address: 16 New York St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Household Duties

Registration district: Brighton
Sub-registration district: St Peter
ED, institution, or vessel: 42

Gara Evans 25
Gertrude Evans
Herbert Evans 29
Herbert Evans 2
Ellen Taylor 14


It caught my eye because of the born-in-France part.

I have a mystery in the 1870s, when my gr-grfather from Cornwall and his younger sister changed their surname from Hill to Monck (one of the sister's given names at birth). We descendants in Canada only ever knew him as Monck, and had no idea he had family (heh), let alone that it was called Hill. His tale had to do with being descended from (or the son of ...) the black sheep younger brother of a Viscount Monck.

I've never ever found anyone else from that family -- until last month. From notes I had added in the censuses at Ancestry, the grx2 granddaughter of my gr-grfather's older sister contacted me. I was gobsmacked and ecstatic. It turned out she knew nothing from before her ancestor's marriage, let alone that her name was Hill.

*Her* family's story was that the grx2 grmother's birth surname was Montmorency, and she was from France! Now in her case, this could be because she was born in Jersey, per all the censuses. I've never found a record, and still don't know whether she or her younger siblings, or any or none of them, were actually children of both of the parents named on the others' birth certs.

Okay, too much babbling. My new cousin suspects that the tale arose from some incident in which her ancestor was putting on airs and someone said Oh là là, Miss Montmorency! I wonder, given the family mystery I already have, whether there wasn't something to it ... wink.


So the question in Margaret's case is -- where did this info/story about Ms. Crawford being born in France come from? It could be a tall tale, but you never know, there could be something there!

If this is the right girl - LOL and we need Margaret to confirm - I am a bit confused why she didnt know what her birth place was or give us more of the 1881 details.?

Here she is in 1871:


Name: Gaza Crawford
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relation: Niece
Gender: Female
Where born: Manchester

Civil Parish: Brighton
Town: Brighton
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England

Registration district: Brighton
Sub-registration district: St Peter
ED, institution, or vessel: 22
Household schedule number: 109

Elizabeth Carr 60
Henry Carr 66
Gaza Crawford 14


And of course, you ask the perennial question, Heather ... why do people not just spit out what they know, instead of keeping it all to themselves like they're testing us?

Sometimes they don't know -- but one way or the other, I wish they'd say!


Oh, ps -- what we do have here is the pain in the bum GR system doing its thing again.

Filter the board by surname Crawford, and you'll see that Margaret *did* give that information. We just can't see it.

Hello Heather,
I'm bowled over, I didn't think anyone would bother with this newbee. how come you two have done things so quickly when it's taken me months to get this far.

According to 1881 census
Herbert Evans -head -29y- b.west Wittering
Gara Evans-25y-b. Brighton
Herbert -2y- .b. "
Gertrude-6mths
Ellen Taylor - servant- 14ys

as a matter of interest how did you access 1881 as Genes Reunited don't appear to have it.

I thought I'd searched 1861 and 1871,couldn't find it there, i'll have to revisit them. I must admit I didn't search for Inness as I coudn't read it and dismissed it as being christian name. it certainly looks as though,we're on to something here. are you saying that Margaret Inness is the mother of Gazajena? I'm trying to get my head around it.I'll have to check dates to see if it's pos(you prob have already). another snippet- you said Gazajena sounds Italian, we have been told that there could be Italian blood in family and certainly that colouring would make sense now.

i can't thank you both enough for putting me back on track. I'm just puzzled as husbands mother(now deceased) always insisted that her mother was educated at the Notre Dame Di Sion in Paris. I think now it must have been a local school of that name,or perhaps they're all fantasists!

Can I be cheeky and ask if you know how to obtain her will as this might tell a lot as I understand there was a falling out over it.

Thanks again for everything.

Kind Regards
Margaret
p.s Hope work hasn't suffered too much!

Hi Margaret!

Me, I pay for the dreaded Ancestry. Love it and hate it, but it works if you know how to work it, as the 12-steppers say. ;)

You have to be creative. I searched for given name GAZ* and nothing else, at one point.

Sometimes I used FreeBMD instead of Ancestry for searching for births marriages deaths. I do it particularly for marriages before 1911, when the spouses' surnames were not connected in the GRO. At FreeBMD, you can search for a name -- given name, surname or both -- that appears on the same page as another name -- given name, surname or both.

So I found Charles Crawford in 1851, unmarried:

ame: Charles Crawford
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Martha
Gender: Male
Where born: Congleton, Cheshire, England

Civil Parish: Congleton
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England

and searched at FreeBMD for a Charles Crawford who may have married an Ellen -- i.e. is on the same page of the GRO as an Ellen -- anywhere, anytime from Mar 1851 to Dec 1861, for good measure. There was only one result.

So here's her parents' marriage:

Marriages Sep 1861
Blackshaw Tom Edwin Congleton 8a 351
**Crawford Charles Congleton 8a 351
HANCOCK Sarah Congleton 8a 351
**Parker Ellen Congleton 8a 351


-- note they were married *after* the birth of Gaza and John, but were living together by at least as early as the spring of 1861, in the census.

And the plot thickens -- this has to be the birth of the John C Parker in the household in 1861:


Name: John Charles Carter Inness
Year of Registration: 1859
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Brighton
County: Sussex, East Sussex
Volume: 2b
Page: 225


Looks like maybe Ellen had a pre-existing marriage.

-- note: it looks like "Carter" on the image, but I wonder whether it wasn't really "Parker" on the original.

Although in 1861 it says that Ellen Crawford (mother of Gaza) was born in Gateshead, Durham, I wonder whether this isn't her in 1851:


Name: Ellen Parker
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Mary Ann
Gender: Female
Where born: Congleton, Cheshire, England

Civil Parish: Congleton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England

Registration district: Congleton
Sub-registration district: Church Hulme
ED, institution, or vessel: 6i
Household schedule number: 122

Ann Parker 23
Ellen Parker 12
John Parker 45 - born in Ireland
John Parker 20
Margeret Parker 15
Mary Ann Parker 43