Military Chat

Thank you everyone for all your generous and kind help
Regards
angela

The first wife's death

First name(s) Elizabeth
Last name Beeby
Birth year 1832
Death date 12 Sep 1857
Death year 1857
Age 25Y 4M
Burial date 13 Sep 1857
Place St Thomas Mount
Presidency Madras
Archive The British Library
Archive Reference N-2-38

Eliza's parents' marriage

First name(s) Robert
Last name Beeby
Marriage year 1860
Marriage date 24 May 1860
Spouse's first name Louisa Georgiana
Spouse's last name Carrick
Place Secunderabad
Presidency Madras
Groom's age 33
Bride's age 19
Groom's father's first name John
Groom's father's last name Beeby
Bride's father's first name Francis
Bride's father's last name Carrick
Catalogue description Parish register transcripts from the Presidency of Madras, : 1698-1948

Father's Will?

First name(s) Robert
Last name Beeby
Title Bombardier
Presidency Madras
Death year -
Event year 1895
Place -
Record type Inventory
Catalogue description Wills of Soldiers - Treasury deposits, Madras vol 8
Archive reference L-AG-34-33-19
Page/folio number -
Record set British India Office Wills & Probate

Widow = LOUISA

Enlisted 16/12/1844
Died of Disease

and death
First name(s) Robert
Last name Beeby
Birth year 1824
Death date 03 Oct 1895
Death year 1895
Age 71
Burial date 04 Oct 1895
Place Pallavaram
Presidency Madras
Archive The British Library

Father's first marriage

First name(s) Robert
Last name Beeby
Marriage year 1846
Marriage date 19 Aug 1846
Spouse's first name Elizabeth
Spouse's last name Foreman
Place Madras
Presidency Madras
Groom's age 20
Bride's age 14
Groom's father's first name John
Groom's father's last name Beeby
Bride's father's first name Robt
Bride's father's last name Foreman

Chances are that, by the time he eventually married Edith, Eliza was deceased.................she was born in 1865

I would have thought he'd have known her age - if only based on the ages of the children of her first marriage. And he added some years to his own age when he married her.

He may not have been a bigamist - one would have to think he was certainly an adulterer ;-) ;-)

Death of Eliza's first husband

First name(s) Harry
Last name Bibb
Birth year 1865
Death date 08 Sep 1905
Death year 1905
Age 40
Burial date 09 Sep 1905
Place Cannanore
Presidency Madras
Archive The British Library

I'm afraid you'll never know the answers to the questions you ask.

It does sound as if he was a bigamist. Perhaps being posted back to the UK with the army gave him an excuse to leave Eliza in India. Or maybe she didn't want to go to with him. Maybe she wanted to stay near her children from her first marriage.
Maybe they parted amicably. I doubt if they were divorced, no matter on what terms they parted.

Many people call themselves widowed in old censuses and other records, as that was considered less shameful than being separated or divorced.

Why did he marry Eliza - another unanswerable question. Maybe he didn't know she was so much older - but people do marry much older or younger partners.

Most trees on Ancestry say Eliza died on 1st May 1955.
Some say 1916 or 1917.
None provide proof, as far as I can see.

First of all, I would like to say a big Thank You to all of you for your very kind and informative replies.
I have a copy of my grandparents marriage certificate William Enos/Enis Lawrence and Edith Annie Beck from 1946 and it states my grandfather as being a widower, so I assumed his first wife must have recently passed away.
I have been unable to find a death certificate for ( I'm assuming his only other wife )
Eliza Marie Bibb whom he married in 1912 in India. Why would he marry someone 20 years older than himself.
I do have a photograph of her headstone which states she died in 1956 in India .
The photograph was sent to me from a member on Ancestry.
I don't understand why he would put is status as widower if he wasn't. Maybe he genuinely thought Eliza was dead or maybe he was a bigamist.

Once again, thank you for all your help
Angela

There were 11 children in total between 1921 and 1942 for William and Edith

As I'm sure you know, his parents had both died before WW1, so he wasn't returning to them in 1916.

His first wife was 20 years older than him

Name: Eliza Marie Bibb
[Eliza Marie Beeby]
Gender: Female
Marital status: Widowed
Marriage Date: 24 Apr 1912
Marriage Place: St. Thomas Mount, Madras, India
Father: Robert Beeby
Spouse: William Enos Laurence
FHL Film Number: 527478

Name: Eliza Maria Beeby
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 20 Jul 1865
Baptism Date: 26 Oct 1865
Baptism Age: 0
Baptism Place: Palaveram, Madras, India
Father: Robert Beeby
Mother: Louisa Georgiana
Reference ID: v 46 p 303
FHL Film Number: 521853

Name: Eliza Maria Beeby
Gender: Female
Marital status: Single
Age: 25
Birth Date: 1865
Marriage Date: 9 Jul 1890
Marriage Place: Pallavaram, Madras, India
Father: Robert Beeby
Spouse: Harry Bibb

Children

Name: Harry Bibb
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 6 Dec 1891
Baptism Date: 30 Dec 1891
Baptism Age: 0
Baptism Place: Perambore, Madras, India
Father: Harry Bibb
Mother: Eliza Maria

Name: Florence Bibb
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 28 Apr 1904
Baptism Date: 10 Jun 1904
Baptism Age: 0
Baptism Place: St. Thomas Mount, Madras, India
Father: Harry Bibb
Mother: Eliza

Name: Percy Bibb
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 28 Apr 1904
Baptism Date: 10 Jun 1904
Baptism Age: 0
Baptism Place: St. Thomas Mount, Madras, India
Father: Harry Bibb
Mother: Eliza


Name: Percival Bibb
Gender: Male
Age: 27
Birth Date: 1904
Marriage Date: 2 Sep 1931
Marriage Place: St. Thomas Mount, Madras, India
Father: Henry Bibb
Spouse: Laura Eliza Fisher

This record is available to view on Fold3 - but probably doesn't say any more than has been transcribed:

William Enis Lawrence
in the UK, World War I Pension Ledgers and Index Cards, 1914-1923

View Original Image on Fold3.

Name: William Enis Lawrence
Rank: Cpl
Record Type: Disability
Birth Date: 1882
Residence Place: Exeter
Military Service Region: South West, South West
Military Country: England
Discharge Date: 28 Jun 1916
Service Number: 14848
Corps, Regiment or Unit: Royal Field Artillery
Service Branch: Military (Army)
Title: WWI Pension Record Cards and Ledgers
Description: Pension Record Ledger
Reference Number: 8/ML/No.789
Next of Kin:
Name Relation to Soldier
William Enis Lawrence


???
William E Lawrence
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: William E Lawrence
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Birth Date: 20 May 1885
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 38 Lower North Street
Residence Place: Exeter, Devon, England
Occupation: Railway Porter (Heavy Worker)
Line Number: 40
Schedule Number: 198
Sub Schedule Number: 1
Enumeration District: WDAH
Borough: Exeter
Registration district: 271/1
Inferred Spouse:
Edith Lawrence
Inferred Children:
William Lawrence
May Lawrence
Kathleen Lawrence
Betty Lawrence
Jean Lawrence
Joyce Lawrence
Household Members Age
William E Lawrence 54
Edith Lawrence 42
William Lawrence 18
May Lawrence 16
Kathleen Lawrence 15
This record is officially closed.
Betty Lawrence 12
This record is officially closed.
Jean Lawrence 7
Joyce Lawrence 6


Looks as if he wasns't married to Edith until 1946. :

William Enos Laurence
in the India, Select Marriages, 1792-1948
Name: William Enos Laurence
Gender: Male
Marital status: Single
Age: 30
Birth Date: 1882
Marriage Date: 24 Apr 1912
Marriage Place: St. Thomas Mount, Madras, India
Father: George Abbott Laurence
Spouse: Eliza Marie Bibb [ widow, nee Beeby ]
FHL Film Number: 527478


William E Lawrence
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
Name: William E Lawrence
Registration Date: Jul 1946
[Aug 1946]
[Sep 1946]
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration District: Exeter
Inferred County: Devon
Spouse: Edith Beck
Volume Number: 7a
Page Number: 992

Name: William Enos Laurence
Gender: Male
Marital status: Single
Age: 30
Birth Date: 1882
Marriage Date: 24 Apr 1912
Marriage Place: St. Thomas Mount, Madras, India
Father: George Abbott Laurence
Spouse: Eliza Marie Bibb


Something doesn't add up

Name: William Enos Lawrence
Event: Baptism
Birth Date: 20 May 1885
Baptism Date: 30 Aug 1885
Baptism Place: Walmer
Father: George Abbot Lawrence
Mother: Charlotte Lawrence


1939

William E Lawrence 20 May 1885 Male Railway Porter Heavy Worker Married 198 1
Edith (A) Lawrence 08 Mar 1897 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 198 2
William Lawrence 10 Jan 1871 Male Railway Messanger Single 198 3
May Fuller (Lawrence) 21 Jan 1923 Female Shop Dispatch Hand Single 198 4
Kathleen Brend (Devonport,Lawrence) 15 Apr 1924 Female Housemaid Single 198 5
The record for this person is officially closed.
Betty Salway (Lawrence) 30 Aug 1927 Female At School Single 198 7
The record for this person is officially closed.
Jean Foxworthy (Lawrence) 25 Nov 1932 Female At School Single 198 9
Joyce Barriball (Lawrence) 30 Jun 1933 Female At School Single 198 10
The record for this person is officially closed.
The record for this person is officially closed.

Name: Edith Beck
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep 1946*******************
Registration District: Exeter
Inferred County: Devon
Spouse: William E Lawrence
Volume Number: 7a
Page Number: 992

Two options...................

Wait for 1921 census to become available........next year

Look for him on 1939 register

His pension would have been paid by the Government

It looks as though his service records must have been among the 70% that were destroyed in a fire. Findmypast only have his medal cards.

His service records would have given the address he was demobbed to.

First name(s) Wm. Enis
Last name Lawrence
Service number 14848
Rank Corporal
Badge number 81774
Enlistment date 15-Feb-1901
Discharge date 28-Jun-1916
Regiment/unit Royal Field Artillery 44 Res. Bty.
Cause of discharge Sickness Para. 392 xvi. King's Regulation
Whether served overseas Yes
Badge date of issue 21-Nov-1916
Record set Silver War Badge Roll 1914-1920
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory First World War

and:-

First name(s) William E
Last name Lawrence
Year 1914-20
Service number 14848
Second service number 14848
Rank Bombardier,Corporal
Second rank Corporal
Regiment Royal Field Artillery
Second corps Royal Field Artillery
Service record Soldier Number: 14848, Rank: Bombardier, Corps: Royal Field Artillery
Second service record Soldier Number: 14848, Rank: Corporal, Corps: Royal Field Artillery
Image link http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D3313033
Country Great Britain
Medal type British Army Medal Index Cards, 1914-1920
Archive reference WO372/12
Archive reference description Campaign Medal Index Cards and Silver War Badge Cards
Record set Britain, Campaign, Gallantry & Long Service Medals & Awards
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory Medal Rolls and Honours
Collections from Great Britain, UK None

Kath. x

My grandfather was discharge from the Army on June 28th 1916 at Woolwich Barracks. is there anyway of finding out where he went to live and where he drew his Army pension from.
William Enos (Enis ) Lawrence
Corporal in the 44 Res Bty 15/02/01 to 28/06/1916
Many thanks
Angela