Military Chat

I am trying to find information about an Irene Evelyn Edwards who joined some time in the 1940's. Can anyone help please? She married a Bernard Gilham in 1942 Surrey South Eastern in 1942. :-) :-)

There could be a long wait for the documents due to Covid

From 1920 onwards service documents are with MOD.

You will have to pay £30.00

Death cert required, you do not need service number or NI number if you have date of birth

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/request-records-of-deceased-service-personnel

When she married Bernard Gilham her name was Irene E. Bristow.

As Pat has already said you will need her service records from the MOD.

This looks to be her first marriage:-

First name(s) Irene E A
Last name Edwards
Marriage quarter 4
Marriage year 1929
Registration month -
MarriageFinder ™

Irene E A Edwards married one of these people

John F Bristow

Spouse's last name Bristow
District Islington
District number -
County London
Country England
Volume 1B
Volume as transcribed 1B
Page number 327
Record set England & Wales Marriages 1837-2005

Kath. x

The woman who married John Bristow was not Irene Evelyn:

Irene Elizabeth Anne Edwards
in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1932
Name: Irene Elizabeth Anne Edwards
Marriage Age: 19
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1910
Marriage Date: 21 Dec 1929
Marriage Place: St Barnabas, Holloway, Islington, Islington
Father: Frank Edwards
Spouse: John Frederick Wiley Bristow [ Father: Ernest Robert ]




If your Irene Evelyn did indeed marry Bernard Gilham, she seems to have acquired an extra middle name. Perhaps she kept Edwards as a middle name??

Marriages Jun 1942 (>99%)
Bristow Irene E E Gilham Surrey N.E. xx xxx
Gilham Bernard R Bristow Surrey N.E. xx xxx

But your Irene didn't marry John Bristow after all, in light of the Bristow marriage above.
Also see ER and death in next post below.

Your Irene only had one middle name at birth - if this is the correct birth:

EDWARDS, IRENE EVELYN mmn BULL
GRO Reference: 1911 M Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 625

Irene E A Bristow was still with John F W in 1964 - and 1965:

Irene E A Bristow
in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Name: Irene E A Bristow
Electoral Date: 1964
Street Address: 10 Y-Hammam, Evelyn [ 10 Newnham Way in image ]
Ward or Division/Constituency: Harrow East
County or Borough: Harrow, England
Reference Number: LCC/PER/B/2920



Irene Elizabeth A Bristow
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Irene Elizabeth A Bristow
Death Age: 70
Birth Date: 7 Mar 1910
Registration Date: Apr 1980
[May 1980]
[Jun 1980]
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration District: Brent
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 11
Page: 0714

You do need the ATS record, in the hope of info re NOK or DOB.
There are lots of women named Irene Evelyn Edwards.

For example - though I quite like the idea of this one:

Irene Evelyn Edwards
in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Name: Irene Evelyn Edwards
Electoral Date: 1939
Street Address: 817 Rectory [ Flat 8, 13 The Cut on image ]
Ward or Division/Constituency: Southwark
County or Borough: Southwark, England

This woman is in one of 28 different flats at 13 The Cut. There's apparently a single woman living in each flat.

How do you connect to these people? Have you done any research?

Why do you think Edwards married Gilham?

This is the 1942 marriage to which you refer......................no mention of 'Edwards'

Name: Bernard R Gilham
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun 1942
Registration District: Surrey North Eastern
Inferred County: Surrey
Spouse: Irene E E Bristow
Volume Number: 2a
Page Number: 147

I can't see any birth of an Irene E E Bristow, nor any marriage of an Irene E E to a Bristow - at least not in England/Wales/Scotland.

Nor of an Irene Bristow to an Edwards - for the sake of thoroughness.

Nor can I see any sign of the Bristow/Gilham couple after their marriage - apart from the birth of a probable son in Surrey in 1943 - mmn Bristow..

As it was a wartime marriage, perhaps one or both had come from abroad.
If the woman who married Bernard is indeed your Irene, either she married or was born elsewhere, or else she just used the name Bristow without having married a Bristow.


The son probably died on the Isle of Wight in 2011.

In case Bernard is your starting point re this query -

The only Bernard R Gilham born in England/Wales/Scotland was Bernard Randolph, born in Yarmouth 1886, and died there in 1941.


There is this one, whose middle name is the same as that of the son of Irene EE and Bernard R:

Bernard Ralph Gilham
in the Australia and New Zealand, Find a Grave Index, 1800s-Current
Name: Bernard Ralph Gilham
Birth Date: 1921
Death Date: 11 Mar 1996
Cemetery: Centennial Park Cemetery
Burial or Cremation Place: Pasadena, Mitcham City, South Australia, Australia


This might be that man - although the stated DOB (1919) doesn't match the above death , so either there's a mistake in one of the records, or this is a different man:

Bernard R Gilham
in the UK and Ireland, Outward Passenger Lists, 1890-1960
Name: Bernard R Gilham
Gender: Male
Departure Date: 8 Oct 1960
Port of Departure: Southampton, England
Destination Port: Melbourne, Australia
Ship Name: Fair Sky
Shipping Line: Sitmar Line Genoa
Master: C Sand

He's travelling with a Mary V Gilham, married, born 1938, and a Peter Gilham, single, born1959.
Peter may have been born in Surrey, registered with two mmns - Gilham and Haines.

Their UK address was in Walsall.
There's a possible birth of Mary V in Cannock, Staffs.

There is no Gilham/Haines marriage in the UK .

Just a long shot - I wonder if Bernard and Irene EE separated after 1943, and he then met up with Mary V by 1958 ???
Perhaps he was Australian, and in the UK in 1942-ish because of WW2 ???

Pure speculation.

We need Lavinia to come back and tell us why she's interested in Irene Evelyn.

There is a Gilham/Bristow birth in Surrey in 1943, and a Gilham/Bristone birth in 1946, which may be a mistranscription

The 1946 birth connects to a marriage in Monmouthshire in 1967

This is the death of the one born 1943..................note the second forename

Title Mr
First name(s) Raymond Ralph
Last name Gilham
Sex Male
Age 68
Birth year 1943
Birth date 03 Apr 1943
Death year 2011
Death date 07 Apr 2011
Residence Newport
Area Portsmouth
Geo direction South East
Postcode area PO

PM's sent advising need to return. Opened

PM received

The woman's surname was NOT Edwards................it was BRISTOW.

However, the poster has latched on to a 1920 birth in Croydon, but that Irene's second forename was ELSIE. So, not correct

BRISTOW, IRENE ELSIE FELCE
GRO Reference: 1920 J Quarter in CROYDON Volume 02A Page 719

I've asked her to tell me exactly what is on the 1942 marriage cert. - especially father's name............................watch this space!

Extract below from the PM

On her mothers marriage certificate to Bernard, Ralph, Gilham in 1942 S.N.E.(he was born 23 Sept in Kingston, Surrey) her mothers name was given as Irene Evelyn Edwards Bristow b. April 1920 Croydon (a spinster)

GILHAM, BERNARD RALPH (MMN) PHILLIPS
GRO Reference: 1919 D Quarter in KINGSTON Volume 02A Page 820

This is the man who went to Australia - having split from Irene, whose second child was not fathered by Gilham, although the birth was registered as such.

Lavinia's PM to ErikaH seems to say that Bernard and irene's DOBs were on the marriage cert.
Is this normal on English certs?

In any case, the YOB suggested for Bernard isn't correct, so Irene's may well not be either.
There's certainly no sign of her birth in Croydon in 1920

We now have three YOBs for Bernard - 1923 apparently on the marriage cert, 1921 on his death cert, and 1919 on his emigration record - 1919 being the correct one..

No, English certs do not contain birth info - that part of the message is Lavinia’s own guesswork - completely wrong in the female’s case, as it happens. As I said, she latched on to a totally different woman’s birth - which I posted

BTW, the info re Bernard’s birth in the PM does not include a birth year - merely day and month

In any case, he isn’t actually connected to the daughter of Irene who wants info about her mother’s family

IF I get any further useful info, I will share it

Irene was 19 years old when she married. No father’s name on the cert

Irene's address at the time of the marriage might be a useful clue.

Or perhaps it was Kingston Barracks, in which case not very useful

EDIT:
On second thoughts, if she was only 19 in 1942, she wouldn't be on the ERs in any case..

What's interesting is there's an Irene Gilham who has a tree on here with an Irene Bristow born 1927 in London.

Rose

Born 1927, too young to have married in 1942 at the age of 19

Address is Kingston Barracks

Presumably, her C.O. gave permission for her to marry