Military Chat

Than you for so much info on Ralph and Clara. I had searched myself and come across some of this info, but I was trying to connect it all to Henry and Thomas. And as you can see it dose not seem to fit all three children I know about to the supposed father Henry. The medals are in the possession of a cousin who copied the info on them for me. I realise that they were campaign medals, but we could not understand why the medals were in Thomas's branch of the family which is a long way from Staffs and where Ralph was [we thought still living] and why had they not gone to his wife and or children. My great grandfather Thomas did not seem to have much contact with his siblings or speak much of them. Clara as far as I know only visited her nephew [my grandfather] the once in 1936 when her brother Thomas had been dead for over 20 years. The story of the desertion was mixed up with another story that was true and proved to be, the trouble was that happened in the 1850's Australian gold rush. So even the timing of the events was out by at least 40 years! It seems that the mystery around Thomas and his siblings is set to continue!!!. Once again I thank you for your great efforts to unpick the tangle that is my family tree.

You say, " if this is even the right Ralph Mellor!"

Yes, I was wondering about that!
Where did you find the medal info you quoted in your opening post?
Do you have the medals?
Or did you just look for army records for any Ralph Mellor on a genealogy website and assume that was him?

Do you know for a fact that R Mellor 8268 is the same person as R Mellor 4909?

Looking again at R Mellor 8268 -

Ralph Mellor
in the UK, WWI Pension Ledgers and Index Cards, 1914-1923
View Original Image on Fold3.
Name: Ralph Mellor
Gender: Male
Rank: Pte
Birth Date: 1869
Residence Place: Fenton Staffs <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Military Service Region: Midlands, England
Discharge Date: 26 Mar 1917
Service Number: 8268
Regiment: N. Staffs
Title: Pension Record Cards
Description: Pension Record Ledger
Reference Number: 6/MM/No.865



There was a Ralph Mellor in Fenton in 1911:

Ralph Mellor
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Ralph Mellor
Age in 1911: 38
Estimated birth year: abt 1873
Relation to Head: Son-in-law
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Draycot In Clay, Staffordshire
Civil Parish: Fenton
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street address: 18 Park Road, Fenton <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Marital status: Married
Occupation: Coal Miner and Hewer
Registration district: Stoke upon Trent
Registration District Number: 361
Sub-registration district: Fenton
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Household schedule number: 197
Piece: 16578
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Wild 66
Joseph Thomas Wild 44
William Wild 42
Ralph Mellor 38
Henrietta Mellor 34
Henrietta Doris Mellor 1/12


Ralph Mellor
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Ralph Mellor
Age: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1873
Relationship to Head: Son
Father: William Mellor
Mother: Ruth Mellor
Gender: Male
Where born: Draycott, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Draycott in Clay
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street address: Stubby Lane
Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Uttoxeter
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors:
Piece: 2752
Folio: 53
Page Number: 3
Household Members:
Name Age
William Mellor 53
Ruth Mellor 51
William Mellor 25
Clara Mellor 10
Ralph Mellor 8


Births Dec 1872 (>99%)
MELLOR Ralph Uttoxeter 6b 335


Marriages Dec 1908 (>99%)
MELLOR Ralph Stoke T. 6b 308
WILD Henrietta Stoke T. 6b 308


But then again, other medal records for R Mellor 8268 give his YOB as either 1864 or 1869.

He had several siblings, including a Clara (1870), who apparently died unmarried - but no Thomas.

In case it's relevant - Fenton Ralph's sister Clara:


MELLOR, CLARA mms WATSON
GRO Reference: 1870 D Quarter in UTTOXETER Volume 06B Page 312


Clara Mellor
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Clara Mellor
Age: 4/12
Estimated birth year: 1870
Relation: Daughter
Gender: Female
Where born: Draycott Staffordshire England
Civil Parish: Draycott in the Clay
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Uttoxeter
Sub-registration district: Sudbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Household schedule number: 43
Piece: 2895
Folio: 80
Page Number: 9
Household Members:
Name Age
William Mellor 43
Ruth Mellor 41
William Mellor 15
George Mellor 6
Eliza Mellor 4
Ann Mellor 1
Clara Mellor 4/12


Clara Mellor
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Clara Mellor
Age: 10
Estimated birth year: abt 1871
Relationship to Head: Daughter
Father: William Mellor
Mother: Ruth Mellor
Gender: Female
Where born: Draycott, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Draycott in Clay
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street address: Stubby Lane
Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Uttoxeter
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors:
Piece: 2752
Folio: 53
Page Number: 3
Household Members:
Name Age
William Mellor 53
Ruth Mellor 51
William Mellor 25
Clara Mellor 10
Ralph Mellor 8


Clara Mellor
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Clara Mellor
Age in 1911: 38
Estimated birth year: abt 1873
Relation to Head: Servant
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Draycott, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Derby
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England
Street address: Oaklands Duffield Road Derby
Marital status: Single
Occupation: Tarlen Maid (Domestic)
Registration district: Derby
Registration District Number: 435
Sub-registration district: Derby
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Piece: 20885
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Baker Chambers 61
Florence Jane Chambers 51
Clara Mellor 38
Sarah Ellen Rouse 23
Sarah Elizabeth Woodward 3



Clara Mellor
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Clara Mellor
Gender: Female
Marital status: Single
Birth Date: 2 Dec 1870
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 111
Residence Place: Swadlincote District, Derbyshire, England
Occupation: Retired Domestic Duties Unpaid
Schedule Number: 66
Sub Schedule Number: 2
Enumeration District: RBXT
Registration district: 434A/2.
Household Members:
Name
Annie Lea - 2 July 1869
Clara Mellor
Doris Mellor - 5 April 1894


Annie Lea is Clara's sister (see 1871 above), and Doris is their niece (see 1901 below).


Annie Lea
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Annie Lea
Age: 31
Estimated birth year: abt 1870
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Draycott, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Burton Extra
Ecclesiastical parish: Burton upon Trent All Saints
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Burton upon Trent
Sub-registration district: Burton upon Trent
ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Neighbors:
Piece: 2644
Folio: 35
Page Number: 12
Household schedule number: 71
Household Members:
Name Age
Annie Lea 31
Constance Lea 3
William Lea 1
Lewis Mellor 40 - brother, widowed
Joseph Mellor 12 - nephew
Lewis Mellor 11 - nephew
Doris Mellor 6 - neice


Marriages Sep 1897 (>99%)
Lea William Burton 6b 583
Mellor Annie Burton 6b 583

The story re my grt grandfather Thomas Stokes nee Mellor, and his connection to Ralph Mellor go's as follows.

In the late 1890's ( some branches of the family believe this is what happened), Thomas Mellor was on route to fight in the Boar war. Thomas and several other men 'jumped ship' and in the process a murder was committed, (I assume the poor fellow trying to stop them deserting).
Thomas and another man changed their surnames at this time and ended up in Australia. When they returned to England Thomas had an Australian wife and 2 children. Both men and Thomas's family settled in Erith/Slade Green area of Kent.
And in 1901 Thomas received a royal pardon for his part in the desertion and murder.

Well that is how the story was told to me. But it did not sound right to me then, as I knew Queen Victoria died in 1901.
I wrote to the Royal Archives c/o Buckingham Palace, briefly outlining the story and giving Thomas's name(s) as Mellor/ Mella or Stokes. After a few weeks I had a reply. The archives had been searched and there was no Royal Pardon in 1901 or surrounding years for anyone of that name.
They suggested I try the MOD as they would be more likely to be of help. So I did wright to the MOD. Unfortunately they destroy the records after 100 years I was informed, so they could not help me either.
When I went back to the relevant branch of the family with what I had learned, sadly they were not willing to speak any more now that I had proved their story incorrect.

Here is what I know about my grt grandfather Thomas Stokes nee Mellor.
He was born 1852 Walsall Staffs and married Mary Ann Rigden in about 1876 Warwickshire. His name change had already happened by the time he wed. Their first child John Thomas was born and died in 1876 Warwickshire.
Mary Ann Rigden was born 1856 Eastry Faversham Kent England (she was not Astralian) the daughter of John Rigden 1834 Dover Kent - 1913 Bridge Kent, and Eliza Rodd 1829 Paddington Middlesex - 1907 Paddington Middlesex.
Between 1876 and 1901 Thomas and Mary Ann had 14 children, all born in England.
Thomas died in 1912 and is buried in a church yard in Erith.
Mary Ann died in 1933 and is also buried in the same church yard.

So Thomas had changed his name prior to the Boar war.
He was married and had a family none of them born in Australia.
Was he in the forces?. By the late 1890's he would have been coming up to 50 years of age.
I know he had 2 siblings Clara and Ralph. Clara never married and Ralph apparently liked a drink!
That was all I knew about Thomas's siblings, but I did assume they all had the same parents!!!
At first I was lead to believe their parents were William and Elizabeth, but could find nothing in the way of census etc for them or the 3 children.
Then I learned from an aunt that Thomas's father was Henry and his mother Mary, and that Henry had been transported to Australia for 6 years for stealing a paint brush. Mary had lived with or married a Charles Stokes and this is where Thomas took his name from.

In 1936 Thomas's sister Clara visited my grandparents Frederick and Ethel Stokes and my mum who was 4 years old didn't like grt aunt Clara as she was very old and moaning about why Thomas changed his name from Mellor. And because the old lady had a habit of spitting in the kitchen sink! Mum was glad when Clara went back home.

My Stokes cousin recently told me that her brother had got Ralph Mellor's campaign medals, and she couldn't understand why Thomas's branch of the family should have them.
I asked her to copy the info for me, and I put a message on this board asking for help as I had been unable to find anything that linked Thomas, Clara and Ralph to the parents Henry and Mary. Even knowing about Thomas's name change, I was stumped.

Thanks to the ladies on this message board I now know a lot more about Ralph Mellor. And have a lot more info to follow up on.
Namely was Ralph and Clara full or half siblings?
The ladies on he have given me a new set of parents for Ralph. So is this the right person in the census's?
I was given a marriage for Ralph and a daughter who sadly died young.
I have also found another possible marriage for Ralph in Leek Staffs where he was born. So are their any children there? if this is even the right Ralph Mellor!
I have a lot more digging to do to try and sort this branch of the family out.

Thank you to everyone for all your help in trying to find Ralph.

Just re the notification via GR of a PM from Merrick, I have just checked my spam box, and there is a notification there, which ties in with a PM from Merrick which I had already seen on here.

The email itself does appear to be genuinely from GR, that it is in my Spam box is not unusual, even in past continuous conversations via PM I have noted some go to my inbox and some for unknown reason go in my Spam. Odd!

No problem, Merrick.
I wasn't suggesting that you were in any way to blame.

I imagine it's some sort of breach of GR's system.

(Or did you actually send me a private message, which I may have wrongly assumed was spam?)

We're all very happy to search for anyone's ancestors!

Thank you ArgllGran for pointing that out. I did not realise there was a problem with replying to any of you directly and thanking you for your assistance in tracking down my secretive and illusive ancestors.

I am a recent returner to Genes and just trying to get back into my family history again after a few bad years of family problems.
I will in future only add a reply on the message board itself. Please let me assure you all I am not a hacker of any kind, all I am looking for is my ancestors, who they were, where they lived/ worked etc. And generally to put flesh on the bones of my family tree(s).
I am sorry if I have caused any upset or inconvenience.

Regards
Merrick

A warning to everyone in case there's some sort of hacking thing going on with the GR boards -


I've received what at first glance would seem to be a GR notification of a PM from Merrick, except that Gmail put it into my spam box, whereas real GR PMs are allowed through to "normal" mail.
The GR signature is wrong.
On a real PM notification from GR, it has "The Genes Reunited Team" in handwriting-type font, in bold.
This fake PM says "the genes reunited team" in ordinary type, with no capital letters, and not in bold.

I didn't click on "Click to read the reply" and have deleted the email.

(Just posting this here because it's Merrick's thread, and the PM supposedly was from Merrick.)

1939

1 Myrtle Cottages Colyers Lane, Crayford U.D., Kent, England
James A Stokes 1901 02 Oct 1901 Male Producer Of Artificial Building Materials (Cement) Married 5 1
Eliza E Stokes 1901 07 Nov 1901 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 5 2
James A Stokes 1926 01 Dec 1926 Male At School Single 5 3
Harry Stokes 1896 26 Nov 1896 Male Salt Glaze Chemical Stoneware Acting Foreman Single 5 4

????????????

1901

Name: Harry Stoker
[Harry Stokes]
Age: 4
Estimated birth year: abt 1897
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Father: Thomas Stoker
Mother: Mary Stoker
Birth Place: Erith, Kent, England
Civil Parish: Crayford
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch Erith
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Registration district: Dartford
Sub-registration district: Bexley
ED, institution, or vessel: 47
Piece: 697
Folio: 168
Page Number: 24
Household schedule number: 128
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Stoker 49
Mary Stoker 46
Esther Stoker 21
Annie Stoker 16
Lizzie Stoker 14
Clara Stoker 13
William Stoker 11
Alice Stoker 9
Harry Stoker 4
Fred K Stoker 1
John Ridgeon F-I-L
James Rainsburg 22

According to the OP's GR tree (and a few others), Harry was born in Erith in 1896,

Is this his birth?

STOKES, HARRY RIGDEN
GRO Reference: 1897 M Quarter in DARTFORD Volume 02A Page 495

IF it is.................siblings

STOKES, ALICE RIGDEN
GRO Reference: 1891 D Quarter in DARTFORD Volume 02A Page 450
STOKES, ROSA MAY RIGDEN
GRO Reference: 1890 J Quarter in DOVER Volume 02A Page 941STOKES, WILLIAM HENRY RIGDEN
GRO Reference: 1889 J Quarter in DARTFORD Volume 02A Page 474
STOKES, CLARA RIGDEN
GRO Reference: 1888 M Quarter in STROOD Volume 02A Page 554
STOKES, ELIZABETH RUTH RIGDEN
GRO Reference: 1886 S Quarter in STROOD Volume 02A Page 539

STOKES, FREDERICK RALPH RIGDEN
GRO Reference: 1900 M Quarter in DARTFORD Volume 02A Page 510
STOKES, JAMES ALFRED RIGDEN
GRO Reference: 1901 D Quarter in DARTFORD Volume 02A Page 532

Virually everyone who served in WW1 got medals

Why do you think Ralph was related to your great-grandfather? Is there any documentary evidence?

NO male births for Mellor/Stoddard apart from Ralph's on the GRO site.

So, whose 'brother' was he?

EDITED...........

PM received. Have asked the poster to reply on here

Posting PM for INFO

Yes I did know that some records had been destroyed, and I do know quite a bit about my gtuncle Harry but not his war service. So to find he had medals was a surprise.
My ggranddad's brother was more of a shock as he was not talked about but my grandfather carried his name as a middle name, so Ggrandad Thomas must have thought of his brother!!!
I have no idea when Ralph was born, and only guessing at Staffs as Thomas was born there as was a sister Clara. I do not know of any other siblings and now am doubting the father's name that I have been given as well. I have Thomas's father as Henry, and assumed Ralph and Clara where Henry's too. But from other info on this board that gives a Rich(ard) as Ralph's father.
I have a lot more digging still to do. But thank you for responding. Any and all help very gratefully received.

Just for a bit of background

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chitral_Expedition

You say that all you know of Ralph is "he was my great granddad's brother and born in Staffordshire . . ."

Does that really mean you don't know about his birth and early life?
Presumably you have researched your gr-grandfather's life already.

However, in case you don't have it:

Birth:
MELLOR, RALPH mms STODDARD
GRO Reference: 1864 S Quarter in LEEK Volume 06B Page 250


Ralph Mellor
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Ralph Mellor
Age: 6
Estimated birth year: 1865
Relation: Son
Gender: Male
Where born: Butterton Staffordshire England
Civil Parish: Allstonefield and Warslow
Ecclesiastical parish: Warslow
Town: Warslow
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Leek
Sub-registration district: Longnor
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Household schedule number: 57
Piece: 2885
Folio: 103
Page Number: 11
Household Members:
Name Age
Rich Mellor 32
Sarah Mellor 32
Ann Mellor 8
Ralph Mellor 6
Eliza Mellor 4
Hannh M Dale 4
John H Dale 2


Ralph Mellor
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Ralph Mellor
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1865
Relationship to Head: Servant
Gender: Male
Where born: Warslow Mill, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Fawfieldhead
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street address: Endon House
Occupation: Farm Servant (Indoor)
Registration district: Leek
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors:
Piece: 2742
Folio: 73
Page Number: 5
Household Members:
Name Age
George Lawton 34
Mary Lawton 64
Ralph Mellor 16


Ralph Mellor
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Ralph Mellor
Age in 1911: 47
Estimated birth year: abt 1864
Relation to Head: Husband
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Leek, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Rochdale
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 76 Church St Castleton Lancs
Marital status: Married
Occupation: Carter
Registration district: Rochdale
Registration District Number: 470
Sub-registration district: Castleton No. 2
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Piece: 24633
Household Members:
Name Age
Ralph Mellor 47
Elizabeth Mellor 27


Ralph Mellor
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Ralph Mellor
Gender: Male
Marital status: Married
Birth Date: 4 Sep 1864
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 14
Residence Place: Rochdale, Lancashire, England
Occupation: Textile Machine Packe
Schedule Number: 163
Sub Schedule Number: 1
Enumeration District: NNJF
Registration district: Rochdale 470/2
Household Members:
Name
Ralph Mellor
May Mellor - 1 May 1914


Births Jun 1914
MELLOR May (mms Robinson) Rochdale 8e 54


Marriages Dec 1907 (>99%)
MELLOR Ralph Bucklow 8a 298
ROBINSON Elizabeth Bucklow 8a 298


Possible deaths of Ralph and daughter May ???

May Mellor
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: May Mellor
Death Age: 25
Birth Date: abt 1915
Registration Date: Jan 1940
[Feb 1940]
[Mar 1940]
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: Littleborough
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8e
Page: 241

Ralph Mellor
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Ralph Mellor
Death Age: 78
Birth Date: abt 1864
Registration Date: Oct 1942
[Nov 1942]
[Dec 1942]
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district: Littleborough
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8e
Page: 49


Death of wife Elizabeth ??

Deaths Sep 1968 (>99%)
MELLOR ELIZABETH 82 LITTLEBORO 10D 101

Ah, yes, this is him, although still only medal card:-

First name(s) Harry
Last name Stokes
Year 1914-20
Service number G-22536
Rank Private
Regiment East Kent Regiment
Service record Soldier Number: G-22536, Rank: Private, Corps: East Kent Regiment
Country Great Britain
Medal type British Army Medal Index Cards, 1914-1920
Archive reference WO372/19
Archive reference description Campaign Medal Index Cards and Silver War Badge Cards
Record set Britain, Campaign, Gallantry & Long Service Medals & Awards
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory Medal Rolls and Honours
Collections from Great Britain, UK None

Maybe this will help ..note prefix letter is G not S
Reference:
WO 372/19/69154

Description:

Medal card of Stokes, Harry

Corps

Regiment No

Rank

East Kent Regiment G-22536 Private

Nothing coming up for Harry Stokes using the army number you quote.

Kath. x

His medal cards:-

First name(s) Ralph
Last name Mellor
Year 1914-20
Service number 8268
Rank Private
Regiment North Staffordshire Regiment
Service record Soldier Number: 8268, Rank: Private, Corps: North Staffordshire Regiment
Country Great Britain
Medal type British Army Medal Index Cards, 1914-1920
Archive reference WO372/13
Archive reference description Campaign Medal Index Cards and Silver War Badge Cards
Record set Britain, Campaign, Gallantry & Long Service Medals & Awards
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory Medal Rolls and Honours
Collections from Great Britain, UK None

and:-

First name(s) Ralph
Last name Mellor
Service number 8268
Rank Private
Badge number 168940
Enlistment date 25-Aug-1914
Discharge date 26-Mar-1917
Regiment/unit North Staffs
Cause of discharge Transferred to Class P On Pension
Whether served overseas Yes
Badge date of issue 02-May-1917
Record set Silver War Badge Roll 1914-1920
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory First World War
Collections from England, Great Britain

Kath. x

There is also this one:-

First name(s) R
Last name Mellor
Age 50
Birth year 1865
Service number 8268
Rank Private
Corps North Staffordshire Regiment
Company / squadron A
Admission year 1915
Admission date 17 Jul 1915
Hospital 2Nd General Hospital
Transferred to Con Camp
Discharge year 1915
Disharge date 19 Jul 1915
Description British other ranks.
Archive
The National Archives
Piece MH 106/902
Series description War Office: First World War Representative Medical Records of Servicemen
Register type Hospital admission and discharge registers
Record year range 1915 July 14-July 17
Country Great Britain
Record set British Armed Forces, First World War Soldiers' Medical Records
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory First World War
Collections from Great Britain, UK None

This one I think says Gastritis (or something beginning with "Gas").


Kath. x

His service records must be among those destroyed by fire in WW2.

The battle you query is the Relief of Chitral.

There is this medical record:-

First name(s) R
Last name Mellor
Age 51
Birth year 1864
Service number 8268
Rank Private
Corps North Staffords
Company / squadron A
Admission year 1915
Admission date 15 Oct 1915
Hospital Queen Alexandra's Military Hospital At Millbank
Transferred to Furlo
Discharge year 1915
Disharge date 02 Dec 1915
Description British Expeditionary Force - British and Colonial other ranks. (Barracks section).
Archive
The National Archives
Piece MH 106/1787
Series description War Office: First World War Representative Medical Records of Servicemen
Register type Hospital admission and discharge registers
Record year range 1915 July 10-1916 Apr. 29
Country Great Britain
Record set British Armed Forces, First World War Soldiers' Medical Records
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory First World War
Collections from Great Britain, UK None

On this one it says he had Enteric Fever. In hospital from 15-10-1915 until 2-12-1915

Kath. x