Military Chat

The marriage certificate looks like it will be the key. The ancestors name checker on the museum trace your ancestor link is drawing s blank but if may be worth contacting them as you suggest. Many thanks

One you may not have been aware of....................

Birth
SOUGHAN, MICHAEL PATRICK DAVIES
GRO Reference: 1896 J Quarter in MARYLEBONE Volume 01A Page 519

Death
SOUGHAN, MICHAEL PATRICK 0
GRO Reference: 1896 S Quarter in MARYLEBONE Volume 01A Page 360

I asked the Regimental Museum whether they were in the West Indies in the 19th Century.

Why don't you contact them?

http://www.inniskillingsmuseum.com/history-of-the-inniskilling-fusiliers/

I would still advise you to get a copy marriage cert, to find out what he said about his father

I hadn’t seen the Barbados link as recent as that. Maybe Michaels father had been in the West Indies, but inlikelyvtfat he died there as Michael was born in Kent in 1847.

I saw that the Regiment was in St Lucia around 1793. Maybe it was Nichaels grandfather who died in The West Indies and there were 3 generations in the regiment? Otherwise the dates don’t fit....

Thanks

Erika- I have now found the removal orders on Ancestry - Many Thanks

I wasn’t previously aware of the poor laws. They had it tough on those days!

Many thanks for your help

The Regiment was in Barbados 1823-1830

As you have your tree on Ancestry, I assume you have a sub. So you can read the removal order in full

If you want to know his father’s name, either marriage cert will be a worthwhile investment

From a Google search, it seems that there were so many paupers that some parishes, particularly in London, were spending more on supporting paupers than they were receiving in rates, and therefore had to redistribute as many as possible around the country.

Although talking about an earlier period in the 19th century, this link give lots of fascinating stuff:

Pauper Capital: London and the Poor Law, 1790-1870
https://books.google.co.uk/books?isbn=0754630080
David R. Green - 2010 - ?History
Redistribution threatened: irremovability and the 1846 Poor Removal Act ... of the Corn Laws, created a new category of non-settled but irremovable pauper.


" Although the removal of non-settled paupers could be cumbersome and expensive to execute, nevertheless it served to deter would-be applicants and was the only means by which guardians could shift the burden of relief elsewhere.
In gaining a settlement, a person became entitled to receive relief from his or her parish, and therefore could not be removed. However, the grounds for establishing a settlement were exceptionally complex and costly to prove, depending on birth, parentage, hiring and service, apprenticeship, renting property, paying rates, serving a parochial office, or acquiring an estate."

Elsewhere:

"If a pauper lived in a new area for three whole years without asking for poor relief," he/she became irremovable."


About Fisherton House, Salisbury, which was a private asylum:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Manor_Hospital,_Salisbury

"A further report in 1896 notes 669 patients in the asylum; the licence permitted 672. There were 135 private patients and 534 paupers paid for by local authorities. Among the pauper patients were 263 who were charged to London unions, 263 to West Sussex and 29 to Canterbury in Kent, some 140 miles distant. The commonest reason for their presence was full asylums locally. "

Thanks Erika and Argyllgran.

The first wife is indeed a bit of a surprise. I'm not sure that I quite understand how she ended up in an asylum in Wiltshire if they married in Colchester and Michael was living in London. I wonder what circumstances "rendered him irremovable".

I had seen the history of the regiment before and my theory is that the Michael's father probably died in India rather than the West Indies ( I have seen India referred to at "The Indies" in other areas of research).

The Michael Soughan above in the 105th Regiment of Foot could be him although the discharge record that I have seen seems to suggest he served his whole career with the Inniskillings.

Dennis James Soughan was his son.

I haven't been able to find any detail on his brothers and suspect they may have joined other regiments.

First name(s) Michl
Last name Soughan
Service number 699
Rank Private
Unit or Regiment 105th Regiment of Foot (Madras Light Infantry)
HQ location Meerut, India
Year 1871
Country Great Britain
National Archives reference WO 12/9979
Period 01/04/1871-30/06/1871
Record set British Army, Worldwide Index 1871
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory Regimental & Service Records
Collections from Great Britain, UK None

First name(s) Dennis James
Last name Soughan
Service number 626548
Source
HAC regimental number registers 1914-1919
Record set British Army, Honourable Artillery Company
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory Regimental & Service Records
Collections from Great Britain, UK None


First name(s) Dennis James
Last name Soughan
Service number 60087
Age Years Months
Birth year -
Attestation year 1917
Attestation date 20 December 1917
Unit or regiment Honourable Artillery Company
Regiment Honourable Artillery Company
Remarks 78 Fairlop Rd Leytonstone Essex
Notes
Conscripted men. Recruitment register: No.3 Book on cover. Recruitment numbers 60001-62572.
County Surrey
Country England
Reference 2496 / 28
Series CONSCRIPTED MEN, 22ND FEBRUARY 1918 TO 2ND MAY 1918

[Added the rest of the sentence in my last post while you were replying, Erika.]

AG

The rest of the sentence is on the other entry.

The poster has all info about Michael with second wife and his children - on his tree on Ancestry

I think the first wife will be a surprise, to say the least!

In the 1893 Poor Law record posted by ErikaH, it says Mary Ann was a "Lunatic Pauper, confined in the Licensed House at Salisbury called Fisherton in the County of Wilts."

Between their marriage in 1879 and up to 1892, Michael D resided "for three whole years and upwards at Fleet Street in the parish of St Bride Fleet Street in the City of London Union in the City of London; that he resided there in such a manner and in such circumstances in each of such years as would render him irremovable therefrom, and thereby acquired a settlement therein agreeable to the Act 39 [something] Vic Chap 61 Sec 34. . ."

History (extract)

After a period of peace it found itself in South Africa where between 1837 and 1847 it was engaged in several of the numerous native wars that occurred during those years. From 1854 and 1868 it served in India taking part in the suppression of the Indian Mutiny and helping to preserve law and order in North-West India.

Try the following

http://www.inniskillingsmuseum.com/trace-a-relative/

Michael Dannis Soughan
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Michael Dannis Soughan
Age in 1911: 64
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Chatham, Kent
Civil Parish: Low Leyton
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street address: 49 Scarborough Road, Leytonstone, Essex Ne
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Bank Messenger
Registration district: West Ham
Registration District Number: 188
Sub-registration district: North Leyton
ED, institution, or vessel: 36
Household schedule number: 100
Piece: 9669
Household Members:
Name Age
Michael Dannis Soughan 64
Charlotte Theresa Soughan 45
Kathleen Victoria Soughan 13
Dennis James Soughan 11



M Soughan
in the UK, Royal Hospital Chelsea Pensioner Admissions and Discharges, 1715-1925
View Original Image on Fold3.
Name: M Soughan
Discharge Date: Oct 1886
Rank: P.

Deaths Mar 1894 (>99%)
Soughan Mary Ann 45 Alderbury 5a 145

First name(s) Mary Ann
Last name Soughan
Age 45
Birth year 1849
Burial year 1894
Burial date 22 Mar 1894
Place Fisherton Anger
Residence Asylum
County Wiltshire
Country England
Record type Parish Register


Name: Mary Ann Soughan
Age: 44
Birth Year: abt 1849
Record Type: Orders of Removal
Event Date: 15 May 1893
Poor Law Union or Parish: Shoreditch
Residence: St Leonard, Shoreditch
Reference Number: SHBG/128/018

Husband residing at 108 Clifton Street, Finsbury

1901
27, Grove Green Road, Low Leyton, West Ham, London & Essex, England
Michael D Soughan Head Married Male 54 1847 Bank Messenger Old Brompton, Kent, England
Charlotte T Soughan Wife Married Female 35 1866 - Manchester, Lancashire, England
Alice Mary Soughan Daughter Single Female 6 1895 - Hackney, Middlesex, England
Kathleen V Soughan Daughter Single Female 3 1898 - Bow, Middlesex, England
Dennis James Soughan Son Single Male 1 1900 - Leyton, Essex, England

His father's name and occupation will be on the marriage cert

Name: Michael Dennis Soughan
Registration Year: 1894
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration district: Shoreditch
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1c
Page: 220
Charlotte Theresa Davies

1891
L and S W Bank, Fleet Street, St Brides, City of London, London & Middlesex, England

Michael Sougham Head Married Male 44 1847 Bank Messenger & Caretaker Kent, England
Mary Ann Sougham Wife Married Female 42 1849 Housekeeper Essex, England

Marriages Dec 1879 (>99%)

COVENBY Mary Ann Colchester 4a 599
Coveney Mary Ann Colchester 4a 599
Soughan Michael Denis Colchester 4a 599

Married on 8th December as per Removal Order (see next post)


Name: Michael D Soughan
Death Age: 81
Birth Date: abt 1847
Registration Date: Dec 1928
Registration district: Amersham
Inferred County: Buckinghamshire
Volume: 3a
Page: 981

Hi,

I am researching the Soughan family name and their military connection.

Michael D Soughan (Born Old Brompton near Chatham in Kent 1847)

It has been passed down through the family that Michael's father was the Bandmaster for the Enniskillen Fusiliers. He died in the West Indies and his three sons who were then orphans (including Michael) had no alternative but to join up with the Enniskillen Fusiliers themselves.

I have found a M Soughan (Service No 1083) who was discharged from the Inniskilling fusiliers in 1886. It notes that he joined up in 1863.

Any help in finding more information on Michael, his father or his brothers would be much appreciated.

Best Regards

Clive