Military Chat

Unfortunately,I can't see any marriages for an Alexander McDonald in Kiltarlity, 1780-96, on SP.
There are several in Inverness, but if his wife belonged to Kiltarlity, I would have thought the marriage would be there.

Thanks for your information AG, I have loved reading through the statistical account of the area of Kiltarlity and Caplach. I have worked out that the place the witness come from is Dochgarroch near Kiltarlity (but still quite far if they were travelling by foot or horse). I could not find Caplach, it probably no longer exists. But I did find Caiplich farm just down the road from Dochgaroch, so wonder if that is a remnant from that hamlet.

I am thinking that maybe Thomas & William Fraser were the wife's brothers, which means that I should be looking at the names you gave me (Janet Fraser; Anne Fraser; Mary Fraser; Christyan Fraser and Barbara Fraser), all who gave birth between 1790 - 1805 in Kiltarlity (with a hubby called Alexander) as the possible mother .

Per the baptism record, the McDonalds lived in Caplach, a hamlet in the Kiltarlity district.

T`he witnesses/godparents were Thomas Fraser and William Fraser. I can't quite make out where they lived - looks like D. . . . garioch's hill.

Fascinating stuff about the area and lifestyle in 1794 in the Statistical Account, on pages 507 - 528 - hope this link works:

https://tinyurl.com/ybrwexkf


Looking at the 1841 census records for Kiltarlity (on Ancestry), there are pages and pages of Mcdonalds and Frasers, let alone any other surname.

It won't be the mother's name on the baptism record. They would be the godparents, although one of them could have the same surname as the mother if they were relatives.

Kath. x

Eish Kath ...... the mom's did all the birthing and weren't even officially credited for the hard work!! It will be interesting to try and find out if one of the two witnesses on that birth certificate might be the mom's name?

Mother's names were very often omitted from baptism records at that time. Apparently mother's were not as important as fathers!!! You only needed your father's name for inheritance reasons.

Kath. x

Thank you Argylgran, very helpful... I have downloaded the birth certificate on SP, and although the entry is very hard to decipher, I think it is the top one on the page. I can't read all of it, but I think on the last line they mention witnesses with the surname Fraser? Maybe relatives of his wife? It certainly then fits with some of those kiltarlity mothers giving birth at the time of Alex's birth. So exciting.....

https://www.genesreunited.co.za/keepsafe/asset/details/68106462

From FamilySearch - apparently gives actual birth date:

Alexander Mcdonald
Scotland Births and Baptisms
Name Alexander Mcdonald
Gender Male
Christening Date 25 Feb 1796
Christening Place KILTARLITY,INVERNESS,SCOTLAND
Birth Date 23 Feb 1796
Father's Name Alexr. Mcdonald


You can view the image on SP:

MCDONALD
ALEXANDER
ALEXR. MCDONALD/
M
25/02/1796
101/
10 247
Kiltarlity


Between 1790 and 1805 (random range of years), there were four McDonald births with father Alexander, but no mms, so I don't think you can necessarily assume the mother had died - it's probably just the way it was recorded.

Names of mothers of other Kiltarlity McDonald births with father's name Alexander, in that same random period - in case it helps:

Janet Fraser; Anne Fraser; Christian McLean; Catharine McDonald; Mary Fraser; Christyan Fraser; Barbara Fraser

Thank you Kath, no I did not have this information. And it is very helpful because now I have confirmation that Alex (stationmasters) birth was indeed 1796 as I had up until now just deduced it from the 1841 census. Also, now I have the start to my next layer, the name of Alex's father, also Alex (now there's a surprise!!). It is interesting to see that the mom's name was not included in this record. It makes me wonder if she maybe died at childbirth?

I think you probably have this but found it on Findmypast so thought I would post it anyway (sorry but I think I am losing the plot a bit as there is so much information on here).

First name(s) Alexander
Last name McDonald
Gender Male
Birth year 1796
Birth place -
Baptism year 1796
Baptism date 25 Feb 1796
Baptism place KILTARLITY,INVERNESS,SCOTLAND
Father's first name(s) Alexr.
Father's last name McDonald
Mother's first name(s) -
Mother's last name -
Place Kiltarlity
County Invernessshire
Country Scotland
Record set Scotland Births & Baptisms 1564-1950

Kath. x

I should have mentioned that on Alexander's (stationmaster) sister Margaret's birth record in 4/6/1820, it reads her parents as married which gives weight to the fact that the marriage above in Latheron cannot be theirs (although I did download it and it gave no further information than their names, date of marriage and that was all). The link below is of Margaret's birth. I cannot read the last word in the sentence, but it may give some clue to where her parents stayed?

https://www.genesreunited.co.za/keepsafe/asset/details/68053170

On a separate note, maybe the team can help me with my final loose end. I have very little information on Alaxander's (stationmaster) parents, Alexander Macdonald (shoemaker) and Christian (Christy) Sutherland. They are referenced on the 1841 census and they are references on Family Search under the birth of one of their Son's, Alexander's brother Donald. For your info, here is the info sent to me by Argyllgran in August:-

Alexander Mcdonald
in the 1841 Scotland Census
Name: Alexander Mcdonald
Age: 7 Mo
Estimated birth year: abt 1840
Gender: Male
Where born: Inverness, Scotland
Civil Parish: Kiltarlity
County: Inverness
Address: Lenakyle
Parish Number: 101
Household Members:
Name Age
Alexander Mcdonald 45
Christy Mcdonald 45
Margaret Mcdonald 20
Anne Mcdonald 14
Christy Mcdonald 10
Donald Mcdonald 8
Alexander Mcdonald 7 Mo
Joh Mcbean 30

Alexander was born 1796 and Christy 1796. The parents are also mentioned on Alexander's (stationmaster) death certificate and his birth certificate which is barely readable, but here is the link: https://www.genesreunited.co.za/keepsafe/asset/edit/68005925

AG also found a marriage reference for Alexander & Chrisy, but we wonder if it is the same couple as it would make their first two kids in 1820 and 1827 born out of wedlock which was unusual in those days:

MCDONALD
ALEXANDER
CHRISTIAN SUTHERLAND/
07/01/1830
038/
30 30
Latheron

How does one find more information on people prior to the first census of 1841? Or have I pretty much reached my dead end now? Your thoughts?

Thanks Chris for the additional link to a newspaper article. I love reading (and saving) them. I had a good giggle about the "Find a Grave" site - never heard of such a thing.. I am grateful for those grave details of Alexander, because my uncle (dad's brother) went over to try and find it and John's and could not locate it. John's widow never went back to Bulawayo, she came to live with her eldest son Alex (my grandpa) and is buried in Pietermatizburg, very close to where her husband fought in the Boer War.

I suspect that the Ann Munro death at Albert place is just coincidental, because unless my records are wrong, Ann's father was a John Munro and her mother was Anne. She was married to Alexander (stationmaster).

lol AG, that's another one about to change also!, I'm hangin' on to the old site search, live in fear when it changes!, been useful on here over the years)

https://www.findagrave.com/

Chris :)

Edits

(I posted below earlier, perhaps she related somewhere!, at Albert Place also, between 1866 and 1869 Births)

09 January 1868 - Inverness Courier - Inverness, Inverness-shire, Scotland

Death
At Albert Place, Inverness, on the 25th ult., Ann Munro, daughter of Alex. Munro, Mason

From find a Grave:


Alexander McDonald
Birth unknown
Death 1920
Burial
Tomnahurich Cemetery
Inverness, Highland, Scotland
Memorial ID 182535304 ·

Gravesite Details Spouse: Munro Annie

No sign of John in that cemetery - or anywhere on Find a Grave (for what that's worth.)

Perhaps he was cremated and his ashes sent back to his wife in Bulawayo.

Select "Inverness" in both places on SP, Janet. It brings up 14 names, but one has a middle name, so I assume that's not your John.
I don't understand why it doesn't work for you.

I've looked at the marriage cert now, and that agrees with the 1869 birth - though could mean a birth any time between 6 March 1869 and 5 March 1870.

I'm afraid the print's too small in the obituary image for me to read!

(well that looks right!, suppose he might be buried same place as Alexander below)

Takes time to learn with 'searching' Janet, a case of 'playing' round, not helped when FMP change things, we had this not long ago!, and sometimes less is more when filling in those boxes!)

Chris :)

05 February 1920 - Aberdeen Press and Journal - Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire

LATE MR A. MACDONALD, FOCHABERS.
The funeral of Mr Alexander MacDonald retired stationmaster, Fochabers, took place on Tuesday to Tomnahurich Cemetery Inverness. A large gathering of the general public accompanied the funeral to the railway station, while the members of Lodge Lennox of Freemasons also attended.

@Argyllgran: The information that you provided on Family Search as good as buttons down the confirmation that John was born 26/11/69, because it corroborates the birth advert that Chris found of a birth at Albert Road, Inverness on that date (see above). And the Albert Road part of the birth announcement verifies that the 1871 census showing Albert Road is the correct one for our family. I am going to download some of those births on SP, but even if I don't find it I am happy enough to know that I got the right DOB, even though I don't have official proof of it.

Just one thing: I think I might be searching wrong on SP, cos when I search births for John 1869-1870, I get 20 names and not 13. Where it says "County/city/minor records", what should I put there? And where it says "District", what do I put there? I tried Inverness for both and it didn't work.

I thought you may like to look at the obituary from the Bulawayo Chronicle (in 2 pieces). There it stated his birth at 1869, but it conflicted with the DOB that I deduced from his ages on marriage/death certificates. Now I know it was right all along:-

https://www.genesreunited.co.za/keepsafe/asset/details/68001043
https://www.genesreunited.co.za/keepsafe/asset/details/68001057

Re the keepsafe links you've posted, Janet -

John's birth [EDIT: I mean marriage ] cert won't show automatically - GR directs me to a page asking your permission to view - so I've done that.

His father was the informant on the death cert, and he was approx 78 at the time (though not that much older than me!), and may have got confused about John's age .

From FamilySearch:

John Mcdonald
Scotland Births and Baptisms
Name John Mcdonald
Gender Male
Birth Date 26 Nov 1869
Birthplace INVERNESS,INVERNESS,SCOTLAND
Father's Name Alexr. Mcdonald
Mother's Name Ann Munro


Unfortunately, you still don't know which birth cert to look at on SP, as the free basic search only gives the year, and not the month, (as you know).

There are 13 John Mcdonald (without a middle name) births registered in Inverness 1869-70.
His birth might not have been registered until the beginning of 1870.


EDIT:

But at least all the images are viewable on SP. 13 x £1.50 (cost of 5 credits) is "only" £19.50, so won't break the bank even if you have to look at all of them - and it would be particularly bad luck if the right one was the 13th! You'd likely find it sooner than that..