Military Chat

Greetings. John Macdonald was a volunteer for the 3rd Seaforth HIghlanders (Rosshire Buffs) in around 1891 for a number of years, and then for London Scottish. In about 1899 he volunteered to serve in the Boer War. He was discharged around the end of 1900. I am trying to get some military records of his service and if possible some personal information as well i.t.o date of birth. I tried email 1st Scottish Horse but received no reply, and now I have hit a dead end. I would be grateful for any leads.

Welcome to the boards Janet.

What was his year of birth and place of birth please as there are a lot of John MacDonalds?

Kath. x

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/general_chat/thread/1370882

(John Macdonald and Mary Macdonald (nee Dougall))

(above might relate to John)

Chris :)

Thank you for your help Kath. I am very new to this and it is all a bit overwhelming. I don't have an exact date of birth for you which makes things more difficult. I have John's original death certificate on 30 August 1919 where he died in Fochabers, Scotland. And his age at death was 48 years.That means he was born between Sept 1870 and August 1871.

But a copy of his marriage certificate in March 1903 (married in Bulawayo, Rhodesia) shows his age to be 32 years which means he was born between April 1869 and March 1870.

In addition, an extensive obituary written in the local Bulawayo newspaper (he was town clerk for 17 years) says that he was born in Edderton (near Tain) Rosshire in 1869 where he father (Alexander Macdonald) was local stationmaster. But a search in the area and at that date shows no births under his name.

So in fact I was really hoping to try and get hold of any military records pertaining to John so that I could possibly establish his date of birth. Until I get his date of birth I can't research my family tree further for fear of following the wrong John. And as you say, there are nearly 100 of them born between 1869 and 1971 in the whole of Scotland. Any help you can give me is most appreciated. Janet

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1367328?page=0

(Alexander Macdonald, Stationmaster at Edderton)

(have added above, for previous info. reference)

Chris :)

(not sure if any more 'Threads', I have a 'Tick' as viewed before on below)

26 January 1900 - Ross-shire Journal - Dingwall, Ross and Cromarty,

On Wednesday night Mr Alexander Macdonald, who has been the stationmaster at Edderton for the past twenty-one years, was met in the Parish Hall and made the recipient of valuable gifts, on the occasion of his promotion to Strathpeffer...

(brief mention of son, Mr. J. Macdonald, London, he having given up an excellent appointment and was now on his way with the London Scottish to South Africa)


(another relating to above retirement, says...
As passenger guard Mr. Macdonald ran on the second train that left Inverness for Perth 9th September 1863, on 1st August 1874 he was stationed at Georgemas Junction)


https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/

(could be more if you have time to sit and search newspapers!, 'playing' with surnames, keywords etc. Above or Find My Past and Genes, all subscription based)


(if anything on below)

http://www.eggsa.org/

http://www.national.archsrch.gov.za/sm300cv/smws/sm300dl

Thank you so much Chris for your contribution. I loved reading up more about my great great grandfather's time as Stationmaster at Edderton. I knew that much about him, but not details and the article has provided me with how long he served there and when he retired and well as the mention about his son John heading for the Boer War. I have Alexanders birth, marriage & death certificates already, but what I can't find is the birth date of his son John. And I was hoping to achieve this through army records.

Do you know of any way that I can contact the 3rd Seaforth Highlanders to see if they have a record of John Macdonald. Or the London Scottish to ask the same? I now know thanks to your newspaper article that in January 1900 John was "on his way" to South Africa with the London Scottish to fight in the war. I also know that by 1902 he was already working as Town Clerk of Bulawayo, Zimbabwe, having completed he service in the army. I have tried looking up London Scottish, but there is London Scottish 1 and 2 and lots of John Macdonalds :(. So without an army number or date of birth I am stuck.

Once again many thanks for your help.

Thank you so much Chris for your contribution. I loved reading up more about my great great grandfather's time as Stationmaster at Edderton. I knew that much about him, but not details and the article has provided me with how long he served there and when he retired and well as the mention about his son John heading for the Boer War. I have Alexanders birth, marriage & death certificates already, but what I can't find is the birth date of his son John. And I was hoping to achieve this through army records.

Do you know of any way that I can contact the 3rd Seaforth Highlanders to see if they have a record of John Macdonald. Or the London Scottish to ask the same? I now know thanks to your newspaper article that in January 1900 John was "on his way" to South Africa with the London Scottish to fight in the war. I also know that by 1902 he was already working as Town Clerk of Bulawayo, Zimbabwe, having completed he service in the army. I have tried looking up London Scottish, but there is London Scottish 1 and 2 and lots of John Macdonalds :(. So without an army number or date of birth I am stuck.

Once again many thanks for your help.

http://www.thehighlandersmuseum.com/research-archives/

(can only suggest contacting above, to see what they say on things, they do have a research service)

Chris :)

Edits

26 January 1900 - Ross-shire Journal - Dingwall, Ross and Cromarty,

Farewell Dinner to a Ross-shire Volunteer in London.

A few Ross-shire friends to the number of thirty, met in the Hotel Florence, Piccadilly, the other evening to wish “God-speed and good luck” to Mr John Macdonald, son of the respected station master at Strathpeffer (who was recently station master at Edderton), who, as member of the London Scottish Volunteers, left last Saturday for the front. Macdonald for several years stood head of the London Scottish Battalion as premier shot with rifle and revolver, and on several occasions found a place in the Queens Hundred at the National Rifle Association, as well as being a reserve man in the Scottish Twenty in International contests.


20 July 1900 - Ross-shire Journal - Dingwall, Ross and Cromarty, Scotland

A correspondent writes:- a following extract from a private letter written by a C.I.V. at the front to a friend in London, maybe of interest to Tain and Edderton readers. After a long and interesting description of the doings of the C.I.V's he says inter alia, 'John Macdonald. I am sorry to say, has been ill with poisoning from tinned meat, but will not give in, and is marching. I wish he would lie by for couple of days, and rejoin us, but he refuses'. Mr. John Macdonald was amongst the first to volunteer when the City of London called for volunteers for the front, and joined with the contingent of the London Scottish Volunteers. Mr. Macdonald is one of the sons of Mr. Macdonald, late station master at Edderton and now of Strathpeffer.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_London_Imperial_Volunteers

(The City of London Imperial Volunteers (CIV) was a British corps of volunteers during the Second Boer War.
After the outbreak of the Second Boer War in October 1899, volunteer corps were established in most counties of the United Kingdom to provide officers and men for service in South Africa)


(no idea on below, you would need help from researchers on link, or their advice perhaps)

Anglo-Boer War records 1899-1902 Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) J
Last name MacDonald
Service number 681
Rank Lieutenant
Regiment Southern Rhodesian Volunteers
Other regiments/units Unit: served with City Of London Imperial Volunteers, Rank: Lance-Sergeant, Number: 681
Rolls WO100/231 page 252 WO100/267 page 43
Notes QSA Clasps: J,DH,CC,OFS,R

(below, perhaps those Clasp initials)

https://www.forces-war-records.co.uk/medals/queens-south-africa-medal

The Queen's South Africa Medal (QSA) was awarded to military personnel who served in the Boer War in South Africa between 11th October 1899 and 31st May 1902.

CAPE COLONY: 11 October 1899 – 31 May 1902

All troops in Cape Colony at anytime between 11th October 1899 and 31st May 1902, inclusive, who had not received a clasp for a specific action in the Cape Colony or the “Natal” clasp

JOHANNESBURG: 29th May 1900 (Transvaal)

Awarded to those troops who, on 29 May 1900, were north of an east and west line through Klip River Station and east of a north and south line through Krugersdorp Station.

DIAMOND HILL: 11–12 June 1900 (Transvaal)

All troops who, on 11th or 12th June 1900, were east of a north and south line drawn through Silverton Siding and north of an east and west line through Vlakfontein

RHODESIA: 11 October 1899 – 17 May 1900

All troops who were under the command of Lieut. General Sir F. Carrington and Colonel Plumer in Rhodesia between 11th October 1899 and 17th May 1900, both dates inclusive, or who landed at Beira between 11th October 1899 and the 25th May 1900, both dates inclusive.

ORANGE FREE STATE: 28 February 1900 – 31 May 1902

All troops in Orange River Colony at any time between 28th February 1900 and 31st May 1902, inclusive who had not received a clasp for a specific action in the Orange River Colony.


(quite a lot on google search)

http://www.aim25.ac.uk/cgi-bin/vcdf/detail?coll_id=15763&inst_id=118&nv1=search&nv2=

(London Metropolitan Archives Records of the City of London Imperial Volunteers comprising nominal rolls, pay lists, communications, minutes, correspondence and other papers.)

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/c/F121671


https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/407223991289135906/

(looks to be Uniform on above)

How can I every thank you enough for all your time and effort in getting me all those leads and information. I was so excited to read more about John Macdonald in thos Rosshire Journal articles. I must have been doing something wrong when I searched, because all I got was John Macdonalds who were in court on assault or reference to other's by the same name :) .

I know from an original obituary for John that he was with the London Scottish, but what I am not 100% of now that I have read the 2nd of your articles is whether he volunteered under the London Scottish or The City of London Imperial Volunteers (because the person writing about him seems to be from that battalion)?

I tried to get into the London Metropolitan Archives, a link you sent me which looked very promising. But it appears that you have to sign up and go into the archives personally to get information - or am I mistaken? Being in Cape Town, this would not be possible.

I've so enjoyed looking up all the links you sent. I may even have one of John's medals without knowing it, although it looks slightly different to the Queen's Medal you sent me. It still has Queen Victoria's head on it but the date says 1820? I wish I knew how to attach a photo to this post, then you could see it.

Ah well, my lunch break is over, so I had better get back to work. Hopefully all these leads will provide me with John's Soldier number and DOB which I want most of all.
Janet

Hi Janet,

You could add a photo to your "keepsafe" (top of page) and mark the image as open to anyone to see and then put a link to the page on here so Chris can see it.

If your medal has Queen Victoria's head on it I don't think it will say 1820 as she didn't come to the throne until 1837.

Kath. x

Looking at one of the newspaper articles about Alexander I think it is more likely that John was born at Dingwall as Alexander was transferred there on 1st June 1862. He wasn't transferred to Edderton until 10th October 1878.

This was from the North Star and Farmers' Chronicle 11 January 1900.

Perhaps because John was only young when they went to Edderton he just assumed that is where he was born.

Kath. x

(lol Kath, I'm no military expert!, there are a lot of forums online now with Military knowledge, or even google images! with medal pictures. For LMA you would need below)

https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/things-to-do/london-metropolitan-archives/family-history/Pages/paid-document-research-service.aspx

Chris :)

05 September 1919 - Aberdeen Weekly Journal - Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire

JOHN M'DONALD, TOWN CLERK. BULAWAYO. Mr John M'Donald, town clerk of Bulawayo, Rhodesia, South Africa, died Saturday at Springfield Cottage, Fochabers, the residence of his father, Mr Alex. M‘Donad, retired stationmaster, Edderton Railway. The deceased was in broken health, when he left South Africa a few months ago, accompanied by his wife and younger son. Unfortunately his visit to his native country did not materially prolong his days.
When the Boer War broke out almost 20 years ago, Mr. M'Donald held a clerkship in London. Being a member of the Volunteer Force and a crack shot, he early joined up for active service and went out with the C.I.V.'s.
After the war was over he decided to remain in South Africa, becoming in time Town Clerk of Lobinguela's former capital, which he assisted to develop into a city of some 50,000 inhabitants.
He is survived by his widow and two sons.


(if below was him)

03 August 1888 - Ross-shire Journal - Dingwall, Ross and Cromarty, Scotland

Volunteer News.

Dingwall B. Company Volunteers.
Teams of this Company met for practice on the Dingwall Range on Monday and Tuesday last, when the following scores were made...

Tuesday
J. Macdonald TL (total) 58


04 September 1888 - Inverness Courier - Inverness, Inverness-shire, Scotland

DINGWALL—VOLUNTEER DINNER.

On the evening of Thursday last, the members of B Company of the 1st Battalion Seaforth Highlanders, were entertained to dinner in the Masonic Hall by Lieutenant W. J. Bell of Scatwell, in commemoration of his first inspection with the regiment attached to B Company (Dingwall). Major Ross presided...


(again below would probably have more info.)

http://www.thehighlandersmuseum.com/research-archives/

(or as usual, a google search, but gets confusing, so many Battalions, lol, you need the experts!)

Guys, thank you so much for all the information. Kath, I found your comments on John maybe being born in Dingwell most useful because up until today I had no information on him or his father Alexander (Stationmaster) before they were in Edderton, except this census for his mom in 1871. This puts them at 6 Albert Plac, Inverness and John is 7 months. I will go and check out births in Dingwell 1869 - 1871, and also Inverness. If I get Jon's correct DOB, getting finding his military records may prove easier. Thanks for explaining keepsake to me. I have uploaded the medals as well as an obituary from Rhodesia for John. You were right about the date on the medal, it was 1890, not 1830. I am still not sure if it is a ware medal or not though.

Annie Mcdonald
in the 1871 Scotland Census
Name: Annie Mcdonald
Age: 32
Estimated birth year: abt 1839
Relationship: Wife
Spouse's name : Alexander Mcdonald
Gender: Female
Where born: Alness, rossshire
Registration Number: 98
Registration district: Inverness
Civil Parish: Inverness
County: Invernessshire
Address: 6 Albert Place
ED: 10
Household schedule number: 293
LINE: 25
Roll: CSSCT1871_17
Household Members:
Name Age
Alexander Mcdonald 30 - Railway Guard
Annie Mcdonald 32
Alexander Mcdonald 5
John Mcdonald 7months

(Son Alexander)

Chris :)

02 February 1866 - Elgin Courier - Elgin, Moray, Scotland

Birth
At 6 Albert Place, Inverness, on the 29th ultimo, the wife of Mr Alex. Macdonald, Guard, Highland Railway, of a son.


(from google, The 1871 Census for Scotland was taken on the night of 2/3 April 1871)


02 December 1869 - Inverness Courier - Inverness, Inverness-shire, Scotland

Birth
At 6 Albert Place, Inverness, on the 26th ult., the wife of Mr Alex. Macdonald, Railway Guard, of a son


(below might have related)

22 June 1866 - Elgin Courier - Elgin, Moray, Scotland

Death
At 238, High Street, Elgin, on the 20th inst., Ann, daughter of Mr Alexander Macdonald, railway goods deliverer, aged 9 months.


https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1367328?page=0

(was above your previous 'Thread'?)


(not sure if below related at Address, but as it came up!)

09 January 1868 - Inverness Courier - Inverness, Inverness-shire, Scotland

Death
At Albert Place, Inverness, on the 25th ult., Ann Munro, daughter of Alex. Munro, Mason


(wondering on that 1871 Census, actual image would be on below (also Births etc.) credits needed though)

https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/


(below reference from other 'Thread)

safc Report 25 Jul 2017 18:26

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Railway Station, Edderton, Ross and Cromarty, Scotland

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Alexander McDonald Head Married Male 40 1841 Station Master Invernessshire, Scotland
Transcription
Ann McDonald Wife Married Female 40 1841 Station Master's Wife Ross & Cromarty, Scotland
Transcription
Alexander McDonald Son - Male 15 1866 Bank Clerk Inverness, Invernessshire, Scotland
Transcription
John McDonald Son - Male 11 1870 Scholar Inverness, Invernessshire, Scotland
Transcription
Ann McDonald Daughter - Female 9 1872 Scholar Inverness, Invernessshire, Scotland


05 February 1920 - Aberdeen Press and Journal - Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire

LATE MR A. MACDONALD, FOCHABERS.
The funeral of Mr Alexander MacDonald retired stationmaster, Fochabers, took place on Tuesday to Tomnahurich Cemetery Inverness. A large gathering of the general public accompanied the funeral to the railway station, while the members of Lodge Lennox of Freemasons also attended.

Hey Chris/Kath,

Here is the link to my keepsake shared folder: https://www.genesreunited.co.za/keepsafe/folder/contents/1 . It has the "medal" in as well as a few other document that I have downloaded.

Chat later.... supper time.

Hey Chris/Kath,

Here is the link to my keepsake shared folder: https://www.genesreunited.co.za/keepsafe/folder/contents/1 . It has the "medal" in as well as a few other document that I have downloaded.

Chat later.... supper time.

Wow... Chris....could these finally be the birth announcement of John (& his elder brother Alexander)? What does the "ult" stand for in the announcement? Do I assume John was then born on 26th November 1970 if the newspaper ran the story on 2nd December?

It is also helpful to know the exact date of the 1871 census, if that is his birth notice above he would have been more like 4 months old than 7 months.

It can certainly all get confusing. I am going to do some consolidation now and start populating an electronic family tree.

The ult in the announcement means the previous month, so yes, 26th November 1869 (not 1870). I really hope this is John's birth that you are looking for.

There must be something wrong with the link you have given for your keepsafe as when I click on it, it takes me to my own keepsafe.

Kath. x

In the newspaper cutting I mentioned earlier it says that Alexander commenced his railway career in 1859 at Queen Street Station, Glasgow on the old Edinburgh and Glasgow Line. He thereafter joined the Highland Company and was resident at Inverness. On 1st June 1862, on the opening of the line to Dingwall he was transferred to that station. As passenger guard, Mr. MacDonald ran on the second train that left Inverness for Perth on 9th September 1863. On 1st August 1874 he was stationed at Georgemas Junction, and on 10th October 1878 he was transferred to Edderton.

Kath. x

Think you need to contact that link below, to see about getting that Record, you need to see details on it...

Chris :)

https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/things-to-do/london-metropolitan-archives/family-history/Pages/paid-document-research-service.aspx


Anglo-Boer War records 1899-1902 Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) J
Last name MacDonald
Service number 681
Rank Lieutenant
Regiment Southern Rhodesian Volunteers
Other regiments/units Unit: served with City Of London Imperial Volunteers, Rank: Lance-Sergeant, Number: 681
Rolls WO100/231 page 252 WO100/267 page 43
Notes QSA Clasps: J,DH,CC,OFS,R


Then it's a case of going on below, to search for a Birth (credits needed)

https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/


(not sure about you Kath, if you could find it, but I don't have the 'knowledge' for those things Scottish, lol)

(will keep an 'eye out' for AG or rg!, they helped on other 'Thread')