Military Chat

You're welcome Laird and I've learnt something new.

Battle of Waterloo was 1815 and William appears to be producing children then. He is a skilled worker and can write so can his wife so should be better off than the average worker. William Betteridge who appears to be his nephew is an agricultural worker and illiterate. William's sons seem to follow father and you know that Edward could sign his name.

A skilled, family man doesn't seem the type to up sticks, sign on for the army and fight in the Battle of Waterloo. You may however find there is a connection but not a direct one, he could be a gt whatever uncle or a distant cousin. Then again as said before you are dealing with quite common names.

At least you are a bit further back in your tree. Try here, it's free, to see if you can get any further back

https://familysearch.org/

:-)

PatinCyprus many thanks for going the extra mile here. I'm a bit of a Harris Tweed fan so I will read the the info on plush weaving with interest.

Name: William Simms
Age: 60
Estimated birth year: abt 1781
Gender: Male
Where born: Warwickshire, England
Civil Parish: Brailes
Hundred: Kington (Brailes Division)
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Street address:


View image
Registration district: Shipston on Stour
Sub-registration district: Shipston on Stour
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1131
Book: 3
Folio: 8
Page Number: 8
Household Members:
Name Age
William Simms 60

Down as a plush weaver as is son William living with him. John and Edward are near neighbours so is George Betteridge aged 70 so could well be Edward's uncle. There is a William Betteridge a few doors away, an agricultural labourer, aged 40 and could be the witness and Edward's cousin.


Plush weavers http://oxoniensia.org/volumes/1963/beckinsale.pdf

You won't find names on a census until 1841, it was just a head count.

William was a very popular name at this time and for the next century then when used by royalty it became popular again. Simms is not unusual either so it may be just a coincidence.

Judith's death

Name: Judith Simms
Gender: Female
Age: 65
Birth Date: 1776
Burial Date: 15 Feb 1841
Burial Place: Brailes, Warwick, England
FHL Film Number: 367952
Reference ID: #567 p71

I just read the very first UK census took place in 1801 and the population of the UK was estimated at around 10 million people. Just trying to do the maths here as it's quite easy to reinvent facts. With the other military records I have always been able to make a concrete connection so I can't just assume because there is a William Simms at about right time he is necessarily the same chap in the Waterloo roll :-)

Ah brilliant so this looks like our man William Simms married 1801 and fathered Edward Simms in 1812. Edward being the father of William Simms born c.1833 who appears on my tree.


Ok so is William Simms the same William Simms who appears on the Waterloo Roll?

I wonder how I would go about either confirming this or not???

Edward's marriage

Name: Edward Simms Ann Brewer
Event Type: Marriage
Marriage or Bann Date: 12 Nov 1829
Marriage or Bann Place: Brailes, Warwickshire, England
Parish: Brailes

Bachelor and spinster both of the parish

Both bride and groom signed. Witnesses both by a cross so unable to write William Buttridge - note Edward's mother's maiden name so maybe a grandfather, uncle or cousin and Mary Burroughs.

1841 census note the repeat of family names - at Brailes

Edward Simms M 25-29 Warwickshire
Anne Simms F 25-29 Warwickshire
William Simms M 9 Warwickshire
Anne Simms F 5 Warwickshire
Edward Simms M 4 Warwickshire
Rodah Simms F 1 Warwickshire

In 1841 they adjusted the ages and Edward and Ann are down as 25 but William is too old for that age - Family Search adjusted the ages to show the possible range of ages.

Otther children all Brailes all baptism years

William 1802

John 1803

Roda (as on Family Search) 1807

Mary 1816

Ann 1817

Marriage

Name: Wm Sims Judith Betteridge
Event Type: Marriage
Marriage or Bann Date: 6 Apr 1801
Marriage or Bann Place: Brailes, Warwickshire, England
Parish: Brailes

Down as bachelor and spinster both of the parish

Both signed their names witnesses Thomas Bickerstaff and Samuel Field who also signed their names.

Could this be him

Name: Edwd Simms
Event Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 2 Aug 1812
Baptism Place: Brailes, Warwickshire, England
Parish: Brailes

Son of William and Judith Simms

So who was the father of the Edward Simms born in 1813? (Handloom Plush Weaver Warwickshire, England)

Edward Simms Head Married Male 38 1813 Handloom Plush Weaver Warwickshire, England
Ann Simms Wife Married Female 42 1809 - Warwickshire, England
William Simms Son Unmarried Male 18 1833 - Warwickshire, England<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Actually i'm starting vere towards this parentage for William Simms because I have a birth certificate for my great great grandmother Charlotte Simms cousin one Harry Simms born 1862 to Charles & Alice Simms.

This would suggest Charles Simms & William were brothers hence I think the Edward Simms born in 1813 would have been the father of these two brothers.

Handy how the odd birth certificate can help put family lines into place :-)

Edward Simms Male 25 1816 Warwickshire, England
Anne Simms Female 25 1816 Warwickshire, England

Probably a safe guess that these would be the parents of William Simms who features on my tree.

So the next step would be to find out who the parents of Edward Simms are and if he connects in any way to any of the names on the medal roll. I assume birth certificate won't exist pre 1837 so this moves into Church baptism records and what info if any it would list such as father's occupation.

One of my Facebook chums kindly sent me the Waterloo rolls for the five mention Simms although I still do not know at this point how to connect the dots......assuming their is a connection.

I think I can make a famial connection to both the above Simms families so it would be interesting to see if any of the Simms soldiers from the Waterloo roll are from the Brailes area.

Thanks for the information!

There was a guy I approached called Clive Andrews who runs a website that investigates family trees. He found out that my great great grandmother Charlotte Simms a domestic servant was born in Brailes, in Shipton-on-Stour, Warwickshire. She was born around 1875-76 and her parents were William & Mary Simms (formerly Holtom).

William Simms was indeed a worsted weaver. I have him on my family tree c.1833

I guess its not a massive leap to wonder whether a father, uncle perhaps a grandparent even is one of the six Simms names I found on the Waterloo roll?

The Waterloo roll shows these names-

Joshua Simms
Edward Simms
Phineas Simms
Silas Simms
William Simms (1st ref)
William Simms (2nd ref)

Hmmmm? I would not be surprised if one of those Williams is connected.

On the 1841 census I can only find the William who is the son of Edward and Ann:-

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Brailes Village, Upper, Brailes, Shipston on Stour, Warwickshire, England

First name(s) Last name Gender Age Birth year Birth place

Edward Simms Male 25 1816 Warwickshire, England
Anne Simms Female 25 1816 Warwickshire, England
William Simms Male 9 1832 Warwickshire, England<<<<<<<<<<<<
Anne Simms Female 5 1836 Warwickshire, England
Edward Simms Male 4 1837 Warwickshire, England
Rodah Simms Female 1 1840 Warwickshire, England

Kath. x

You need to go back one generation at a time and make sure you are following the correct family.

There are two William Simms born c.1833, one is the son of William and Mary and the other is the son of Edward and Ann.

Here are the two census records for 1851:-

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Grove End Farm, Brailes, Shipston-On-Stour, Warwickshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place

William Simms Head Married Male 48 1803 Handloom Plush Weaver Warwickshire, England
Mary Simms Wife Married Female 50 1801 - Warwickshire, England
Caroline Simms Daughter Unmarried Female 22 1829 - Warwickshire, England
William Simms Son Unmarried Male 18 1833 - Warwickshire, England<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Mary Ann Simms Daughter - Female 8 1843 Scholar Warwickshire, England
Alfred Simms Grand Son - Male 1 1850 - Warwickshire, England

and the other one:-

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Grove End Farm, Brailes, Shipston-On-Stour, Warwickshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place

Edward Simms Head Married Male 38 1813 Handloom Plush Weaver Warwickshire, England
Ann Simms Wife Married Female 42 1809 - Warwickshire, England
William Simms Son Unmarried Male 18 1833 - Warwickshire, England<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Edward Simms Son - Male 14 1837 Scholar Warwickshire, England
Rhoda Simms Daughter - Female 10 1841 Scholar Warwickshire, England
Mary Simms Daughter - Female 8 1843 Scholar Warwickshire, England
John Simms Son - Male 6 1845 Scholar Warwickshire, England
Stephen Simms Son - Male 4 1847 - Warwickshire, England
Charles Simms Son - Male 2 1849 - Warwickshire, England Transcription
Henry Simms Son - Male 0 1851 - Warwickshire, England

Both families are living at Grove End Farm

Kath. x

I got a Charlotte Simms born 1876 daughter of born to William Simms cicra 1833 and Mary Holton 1835 of Brailes, Warwickshire, England. Got to wonder if some relative of their was fighting Bony in 1814 :-)