Military Chat

Many thanks
Will pass this info on to him

Many thanks. B

You might need to down load the war diaries from the National Archives, then look for the action which took place on 14 Apr 1917.

J W Ormsby might be mentioned either then or a few days later. The Village probably would be. Normally only Officers are named.
It would have helped if the citation mentioned which Company he took command of. It doesn't help that references for J W Hodgson omits that as well.

One Genes members has helped highlight names an the War Diaries at the NA. If she's around and spots this thread, she might have better 'finding' advice.

He means Victoria Cross

Hi DetEcTive

Have just received the following email reply from the friend I am trying to help, Wonder if you can give us any pointers as to anywhere else we may be able to get any more info. Many thanks. B.


Hi Barbara,
This is the Sergeant who got the Victory Cross on the day my grandfather died. I believe it is possible they were in the same action, but I have no evidence one way or the other.

I wondered if there would be any more info anywhere or more possible avenues of investigation.

Regards

John


For the award of the Victoria Cross
[ London Gazette, 8 June 1917 ], Fayet, France, 14 April 1917, Sergeant John William Ormsby, 2nd Bn, King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry.

For most conspicuous bravery and devotion to duty ( Fayet, France ) during operations which culminated in the capture of an important position. Acting as Company Serjeant-Major he showed throughout the attack absolute indifference to the heavy machine gun and rifle fire, and set a fine example.
After clearing the village he pushed on and drove out many snipers from localities further forward. When the only surviving officer was wounded he took command of the company and led them forward under heavy fire for 400 yards to a new position. He organised his new position with great skill and held his line with determination until relieved of his command.
His conduct throughout was admirable and inspired confidence in every man under his command

John Ormsby was invested with his Victoria Cross by King George V at Buckingham Palace on the 30th June 1917

Aw thanks
Will pass info on
Many thanks

It was from one of the medal index cards

UK, WWI Service Medal and Award Rolls, 1914-1920

John William Hodgson
Military Year: 1914-1920
Rank: Private
Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal
Regiment or Corps: King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry
Regimental Number: 19048
>>>Previous Units: 19048 Pte 9th Yorks L.I.<<<, 2nd Yorks L.I.

it also says that he was previously in the 2nd Yorks L.I. but you already knew that, although may be not the 2nd Yorks.

After that, it was just a case of googling the Battalion and seeing what came up.
During the chaos of war, it wasn't unusual for men to become detached from their own battalion and be absorbed into another. They could also be reassigned to make up numbers

Hi DecECTive
Our friend came round this evening and thanks you so much for all the info. He knows his ancestor was in the 2nd battalion but wonders how you have the info about him in the 9th as he has looked at the The Long Long Trail but did not pick up this from it.
He also has the book Pontefract to Picardy - history of the 9th and J W Hodgson is not listed in the fallen but if he was moved to the 2nd battalion that could be why.
A sergeant in the 2nd battalion got a VC on 14 April 1917. Many others killed at Battle of Scarpe on same day in that action
Thank you once again for all your help and information

Thank you so much. Will see John - the friend who asked if I could find information for him - tomorrow evening and will pass on all this info. He will be so pleased
Thank you once again

I presume this is his marriage. He's listed as William on the indexes: Abode for both is Cross Hallgate, Mexborough.

First name(s) John Willie
Last name Hodgson
Age 23
Birth year 1887
Marriage year 1910
Marriage date 26 Sep 1910
Marriage place Mexborough
Residence Mexborough
Father's name(s) Fred Hodgson (deceased)
Spouse's first name(s) Charlotte
Spouse's last name Carr
Spouse's age 22
Spouse's residence Mexborough
Spouse's father John Carr (deceased)
Witnesses: Adam Adamson & Sarah Hudson
County Yorkshire (West Riding)
Country England
Archive Doncaster Archives
Archive reference P43-1-B7
Page 209
------------------------------------

Wondering if Fred was a made up father- no mmn listed on GRO index:

HODGSON, JOHN WILLIE -
GRO Reference: 1887 S Quarter in BRADFORD YORKSHIRE Volume 09B Page 257

Charlotte & John in 1911:

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
14 Crossgate Mexboro Rotherham, Mexborough, Yorkshire, England

Arthur Davies Father Married Male Coal Miner Hewer 48 1863 Staffordshire Parish N K
Emma Davies Mother Married Female - 53 1858 Mexborough Yorkshire
Francis Arthur Davies Son Single Male Student 15 1896 Mexborough Yorkshire
John Hodgson Son In Law Married Male Forge Labourer 24 1887 Bradford Yorkshire
Charlotte H Hodgson Step Dauter Married Female - 22 1889 Mexborough Yorkshire
Francis Arthur Hodgson Grandson - Male - 0 1911 Mexborough Yorkshire

Thank you so much for all this info. I will see my friend tomorrow and pass on all this information.
Thank you once again

King’s Own Yorkshire Light Infantry

9th (Service) Battalion
Formed at Pontefract in September 1914 as part of K3 and came under command of 64th Brigade in 21st Division. Moved to Berkhamsted and then to Halton Park (Tring) in October 1914, going on to billets in Maidenhead in November. returned to Halton Park in April 1915 and went on to Witley in August.
>>>September 1915 : landed in France.<<<

2nd Battalion
August 1914 : in Dublin. Part of 13th Brigade in 5th Division.
16 August 1914 : landed at Le Havre.
28 December 1915 : transferred to 97th Brigade in 32nd Division.

From The Long Long Trail
http://tiny.cc/33f2gy

It wasn't unusual for a soldier to become seperated from his unit and be absorbed or sent to another.
Someone more knowledgable might be able to work out if there was a particular action he died in.

Is this relevant? Its one of the 'hints' on Ancestry

West Yorkshire, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1910
John William Hodgson
Birth Date: 16 Sep 1885
Parish: Idle, Holy Trinity
Baptism Date: 6 Jun 1886
Father: John Hodgson
Mother: Mary Ellen Hodgson

Image states born 16 Apr 1885. Residence Nestfield Lane. Father a Cabinet Maker

EDIT - in light of the marriage posted by AustinQ, probably not the same person

Not finding his service records. Its possible that his are amongst the 70% which were destroyed during WW2 bombing.

UK, WWI Service Medal and Award Rolls, 1914-1920

John William Hodgson
Military Year: 1914-1920
Rank: Private
Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal
Regiment or Corps: King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry
Regimental Number: 19048
Previous Units: 19048 Pte 9th Yorks L.I., 2nd Yorks L.I.

Different entry
John W Hodgson
Regiment or Corps: King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry
Regimental Number: 19048

Image states Killed in Action
First entered a Theatre of War (France).
Qualifing date for medals earned overseas 11 Sep 1915

UK, Army Registers of Soldiers' Effects, 1901-1929
John William Hodgson
Gender: Male
Death Date: 14 Apr 1917
Rank: Private
Regiment: King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry
Regimental Number: 19048

Presumed dead rather than died from 14 Apr 1917.
Back pay and war gratuity of £12 1s 3d & £11 paid to his widow and sole legitimate heir, Charlotte

Sounds as if you have a fair amount already

From CWGC site
HODGSON, JOHN WILLIAM

Rank: Private
Service No:19048
Date of Death:14/04/1917
Regiment/Service: King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry
2nd Bn.
Panel Reference: Pier and Face 11 C and 12 A.
THIEPVAL MEMORIAL

A total of 43 men from the King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry are recored as having died on 14 Apr 1917 & are recorded on the Thievpval Memorial

From Ancestry
John William Hodgson
in the UK, Soldiers Died in the Great War, 1914-1919
John William Hodgson
Birth Place: Bradford
Death Date: 14 Apr 1917
Death Place: France and Flanders
Enlistment Place: Mexborough
Rank: Private
Regiment: King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry
Battalion: 2nd Battalion
Regimental Number: 19048
Type of Casualty: Killed in action
Theatre of War: Western European Theatre

Hi. Wonder if anyone can help
A friend has asked if I can find out a little more about his grandfather, JOHN WILLIAM HODGSON Service No. 19048 who was in the Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry and was killed in WW1 on 14th April 1917. He enlisted in Mexborough. Many thanks in anticipation.