Military Chat

Glad to have been of help.

And there's nothing wrong with your memory. :-)

Thanks Andysmum, that clarifies it to my satisfaction. When I was a small boy I used to have cardboard cut-out models of the famous ships (Santa Maria, Golden Hind etc) and learnt the names of the various masts as a very small chap! As I recall there was the Foremast, Main mast and the Mizzen mast at the back - of course, the memory is not what it was and I could be wrong.

John, I asked OH about this and he has come up with a suggestion which I think may well be right.

All Naval Training Establishments put their new recruits into groups known as divisions. Usually each new intake is in one division, and when their training is finished and they go off to their next jobs, the same division name is used for the next new lot.

Divisions are called after well-known ships, or famous admirals or, in this case, parts of a sailing ship. This would be a carry-over from the days of sail (as in my last post) and was still in use in the 1960's.

I didn't know this, but when OH was serving in HMS Belfast, he was the Quarterdeck Officer (the aft part of the ship), another Lieutenant was the Fo'c'sle Officer (front part of the ship and originally forecastle in Tudor times) and another was responsible for the centre part, known as the top, which used to be the mizzen-top.

Thanks again. He volunteered for Wireless Telegraphy and the Marconi Training School was in Liverpool. It may or not mean anything but his Service Record has a large "M" stamped at the top of it. He lived in Lytham so Liverpool would be his nearest point for signing on, hence the "Mersey" in his number. I would imagine that the gov't would have taken over Marconi's operations "for the duration" and that would include the Training School. The two telegraphists on the "Titanic" were trained there - quite a long course,so it would seem logical for the gov't to use that faciilty. On the RNVR medal Roll he just has a "B" which I have assumed means "SWB".
As a trainee telegraphist I don't imagine he would be climbing any masts!

Mizzen-top is short for Mizzen Topmast, ie the top bit of the mizzen, or stern-most mast on a sailing ship. (Also on a modern yacht). The mizzen-top also refers to the lookout platform at the top of the mizzen mast.

I can't find anything to confirm this, but my best guess is that mizzen-top in your first post has nothing to do with Ireland, but refers to the part of ship to which your ancestor was assigned. He would have been with a group of men responsible for the sails, rigging and everything else connected with that part of the ship. Including, of course, climbing the mast, walking out along the yard-arm (cross spar) to set the sails - a terrifying experience until you got used to it. No health and safety in those days.

On the other hand - I don't think they still used sailing ships by the time of WW1. Back to the drawing board. :-( :-(

John. I have had a browse around and the only thing I have come up with (may not be of much help!) is the following....


MZ - Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve Mersey Division wartime enlistment.
the M relates to the area and the Z is the prefix used for Medal purposes for that Branch of the Services it also appears that the same number was given to others...

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7283910

Thanks. Of course, I mis-typed the mobilisation date - it should be 1916. The M/Z Battn seems to refer in some way to his Number of Mersey ,Z/1165 but I also cannot see the connection to Mizzen Top or Ireland. Odd also that he was found to be unsuitable on medical grounds so soon after being mobilised - the medical must have been pretty rudimentary.

John. This is probably where he was stationed...

Mizen Head is located at the extremity of a peninsula in the district of Carbery in County Cork, Ireland. It is one of the extreme points of the island of Irelandl. It was it was an old Signal and Weather station also has a lighthouse.

Mizzen Top refers to Mizzen mast on a ship...but I cant see the connection.

John, your dates seem a bit odd. If he joined in Dec 1915 he couldn't have been mobilised in April of the same year.

Hi, an ancestor, Arthur Taylor Burke RNVR joined the R.N. Division in 11.12.15. His number is Mersey, Z/1165. and he was to be a Wireless Telegrapher. He was mobilised on 3.4.15 but discharged on 6.4.15. on medical grounds His service record states: "Attached to M/Z. Battn., Mizzen-Top, 617." then: "Discharged from C.P. Not finally approved, on medical grounds." Then: "Dischgd.List No 205." Can anyone with naval knowledge explain what what M/Z, Mizzen Top, C.P. etc mean?
He was issued with an SWB so likely never went back into any of the Services.