Military Chat

thanks very much for all your replies, I think you are right the two closed records are the son and daughter we know one of the boys died before 1939.
I did wonder about anyone having to produce the marriage cert as I have some army records where the cert is a fabrication.so obviously not checked.
Think maybe it might be a good idea to get that Birth Cert for Beryl , and thanks for the newspaper bit I found it on fmp after you mentioned it.
Very grateful for all your help

In 1932/ 1933 Marine, James Lawrence Alderson is listed on the Absent voters list- address 124 Abbeville Road, Clapham.

He is also listed as an absent voter in 1937/ 1938 - same address listed

On the 1939 electoral register he's still listed at the same address:

124 Abbeville Road
Kate Clarke
Lionel Clarke
James Lawrence Alderson
Doris Winifred Alderson.
---------------------------------------------

1939 register:
Clarke Household (4 People) 124 Abbeville Road , Wandsworth, London, England

Frederick C W Clarke 25 Sep 1879 Male Jobbing Builder Married
Kate Clarke 22 Feb 1885 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married
Lionel R A Clarke 22 Oct 1915 Male Painter-Paperhanger Heavy W Single
Dennis C Alderson 14 Feb 1904 Male Television Research Assistant Single

(did wonder if should have been D instead of P)

Chris :)

Edits (Snippet)

25 July 1940 - Birmingham Daily Gazette - Birmingham, West Midlands

Royal Marines Missing
Marine J.L. Alderson

I didn't think bigamous marriages were removed from the indexes either-

But, I don't believe they married.

In 1939 she is listed under Randoll. This was changed on the register to Cornhill in 1951.

Possible child/ children listed after the said date of marriage are also listed under Randoll.
---------------------------------

CWGC lists wife as Dorothy:

ALDERSON, JAMES LAWRENCE
Rank: Marine
Service No: CH/X 330
Date of Death: 01/06/1940
Age: 31
Regiment/Service: Royal Marines
Panel Reference: Panel 84.
Memorial: CHATHAM NAVAL MEMORIAL
Additional Information: Son of Kate and the late James Alderson; husband of Dorothy Cornhill (formerly Alderson), of Strood, Rochester, Kent.

http://www.afhs.org/ww2_roll_of_honour.htm

(says Husband of P. Alderson of Strood, Kent)

Chris :)

Possibly this explains the 2 closed records:

Births Mar 1931 (>99%)
Randoll Frederick R Chambers Malling 2a 1326

Births Jun 1934 (>99%)
Randoll Male Chambers Malling 2a 1353
Deaths Mar 1934 (>99%)
Randoll Male 0 Malling 2a 1313

Births Sep 1937 (>99%)
Randoll Margaret Chambers Strood 2a 1440

I also noticed this:

Births Jun 1935 (>99%)
Randoll Beryl A Randoll Malling 2a 1467


My grandad's WW1 service record has an item headed "Northumberland Territorial Force Association" It is dated 22/2/1918, and follows with "Particulars of MARRIED SOLDIER'S FAMILY rendered under War Office Circular letter 7/Gen.No./8206 (T.N.1) dated 24th.January,1918. It then gives the full name and date of marr of his wife, his home address, the full names and date of birth of his children.

It is initialed as checked on 11/3/18, and signed by someone. An aunt who was born 13/5/18 is added with her name and city of birth (I know she was born at home). My grandad was in France at the initial time, and when my aunt was born.

I presume the purpose was to ascertain what the pension liability was in the event of his death. The form is headed with the addy of a drill hall in Newcastle, so maybe the checking consisted of a home visit - I can't think it went further than that. I know my mum didn't have a b.cert at that time (not until she was 14, when she started work, and then - since it was required under some statute - she could get a real cheap one). I can't see all my grandad's attestation page - his has burnt edges, but I've seen planty of Canadian attestations, and they're all signed under penalty of perjury, so maybe that was all the checking that was done.

I don't go along with Kay's last post. The GRO might make some notation in their copy of the index, and refuse to issue an m.cert for a marr they know to be bigamous, but I can't believe they would physically remove the entry from all the printed copies of the index knocking about - it would mean reprinting both sides of the page in question, and rebinding all the copies after switching the pages,. I suppose they could send a memo round saying cross it out, but I still don't see even that happening.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with Kay. I don't think that a bigamous marriage is removed from the index. I certainly know of one marriage that was bigamous in the 1940's. There was a court case, the male was jailed , the female was already pregnant so her child was registered in her maiden name (as that was her legal name as the marriage was bigamous), but the marriage is still showing in the marriage index and I have been able to purchase a copy of the marriage certificate.

Kath. x

thanks for your reply Kay ,thats very interesting, I hadn't known that very grateful to you.

If a marriage took place and Dorothy wasnt legally divorced from Fred Randoll then the marriage would be annulled on bigamy grounds and marriages that are annulled are taken out of the E/Wales GRO indexes as they never exsisted.so no index ref will show.

You cant remarry till 6 weeks after the decree nisi has been granted.

thanks very much this is what we do know

James Lawrence Alderson born 1908 Clapham a Royal Marine in the 2nd WW died 1 Jun 1940

His records show he married Dorothy M E Chambers (Randoll) on 25th August 1934

Dorothy May Evelyn Alderson.nee Chambers who was born 1913 Ryarsh Kent

Dorothy married a Frederick Robert Randoll in 1930 Medway Kent she is then calling herself Dorothy M Chambers
Dorothy then married again in 1950 Chatham Kent to a
William G Cornhill calling herself Dorothy M Alderson

in 1939 she is at 61 Bush Road strood Kent there are two closed records but dont know who they are

Thanks for helping hope I have made it clear enough

Have you checked for him and his wife on the 1939 register?

As Kath says, if want to share the names, we'll take a look

Do you want to give the names so that we can see if we can find anything?

Kath. x

hi and thanks for replying , they could have but we have searched overseas and Scotland we think if they married it would be in Kent .
There is also a mystery about the children born so maybe the marriage was dissolved?

Could he have married overseas, under the laws of another country? If that was the case, it wouldn't necessarily appear in the British Military or British Overseas gro indices.

Thanks for your replies it was in 1934 but nobody can find a marriage for them, and of course divorces for that period aren't online.The bride married once in 1930 then she supposedly married this man in 1934 she then married another man in 1950, but nobody in the family knew of the marriage .Thanks once again. :-)

Have you found the marriage in the GRO indexes? I don't think people were very often asked for certificates in those days. People would just take you at your word.

Kath. x

Depends on when he married.it was usual to name the next of kin,also if he married while in the Navy then permission had to granted by them.
If it states in his records dates of his marriage then it took place.

Perhaps a divorce took place and it was a closed chapter of his life.

We have the UK military records of a Marine which states he was married and the date, but as far as everybody knows he never married, what I wondered was would they always have asked for proof ie the Certificate.
Thanks