Military Chat

Hi everyone

I'm quite new to this forum page.
I'm researching my fiances family Smythe, and I'm trying to find information on an ancestor called Ralph Arthur Smythe born in 1901. When he got married in 1924 his occupation was listed as Army and living in Shaft Barracks, Dover. I've done a little digging but can't find a lot of information regarding his army records or any helpful information about the barracks.

Any hints or tips would be extremely gratefully received?
Steph

Welcome to the Boards, Steph.

Ralph's military records will still be with the MOD. Depending on your fiances relationship & when Ralph died he could order a copy at a cost of £30. They may take several months to arrive.

This is the link for obtaining UK service records:
http://www.veterans-uk.info/service_records/service_records.html

Not sure what you've already discovered about The Grand Shaft & Barracks, Dover
Have you seen any of these?

http://www.subterraneanhistory.co.uk/2007/06/grand-shaft.html
Although owned by Dover Council, the Shaft now remains under the care of the Western Heights Preservation Society, who open it to the public on special days throughout the year, the barracks site can be visited at any time.

Perhaps the WH PS have more information?
.....
http://www.kenthistoryforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=6018.0
.........
http://jeffhowe.tripod.com/grand_shaft.htm
A War Department map updated to 1893 shows Grand Shaft Barracks comprising a recreation room, reading room, coffee bar, ball court, skittle alley, wash house, cook house, workshop, meat store, library, gymnasium, latrines, officers’ quarters, and the barracks also had a stable block. Many of these features however, being from a later building period.

Hi
Thank you for the information. It's his adopted great grandfather so I don't know where he stands.
I've just looked on those 2 websites which I read earlier today, very interesting but doesn't say much about the army barracks history much.
Im not from that area so wouldn't know where I could find more information from.

Thank you again
Regards
Steph

Their website is here
http://www.doverwesternheights.org/

There are buttons for Contact and for Email at the extreme bottom of the screen. Its worth asking.

Dover also has a museum who might have some information, or at least suggest who to approach
http://www.dovermuseum.co.uk/Home.aspx

Dover Castle is run by English Heritage. Initially the thought was that they'd have control of the Grand Shaft & Barracks but it appears its outside of their remit.

Its probably pointless looking for it on the 1939 register as that area was likely to be a military establishment. Dover was a front line defence post in the 2nd world war.
"The Napoleonic tunnels have a new role as naval and later combined services headquarters, where the Dunkirk evacuation is masterminded. Air attacks earn the area around Dover the nickname 'Hellfire Corner'. "
http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/places/dover-castle/

Although expensive for non English Heritage members, its well worth a visit if you are ever down that way.

Ralph doesn't seem to have been re-called from the Reserves in so much as there are no notations indicating that on his 1939 register entry

Smythe Household (3 People) Power House Mill Lane , Melton and Belvoir R.D., Leicestershire, England

First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Sex Occupation Marital status
Ralph A Smythe 09 Mar 1901 Male Iron Furnaceman Hw Married
Minnie Pell (Smythe) 25 Jul 1902 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties
Married
Donald J Smythe 12 May 1931 Male At School Single

2 records listed after Minnie and before Donald are closed indicating people, probably children, born after 1915 & where there isn't a record of their deaths before 1991. There might be younger children in the household which are also closed. On the other hand, they may relate to the next household!

Assuming this is Ralph's death, you should be able to apply for his full service records

First name(s) RALPH ARTHUR
Last name SMYTHE
Gender Male
Birth day 9
Birth month 3
Birth year 1901
Death quarter 1
Death year 1976
District CHIPPING NORTON
County Oxfordshire
Volume 20
Page 2867

The link in the first post states
"You can apply for a copy of someone else’s service records if one of the following apply.......
..... you have a general research interest - you’ll only have access to limited information, >>>>>unless they died more than 25 years ago <<<<<

Yes that's all the info I have too but great knowledge about the war etc thank you!
So by his occupation etc in 1939 he most likely wouldn't have been in the second world war do you think?
I shall get contacting those other suggestions you made.
Thank you
Steph

There's a slim chance he was re-called, but its unlikely due to
a) his age - he would have been on the 'cusp'
b) his occupation as an Iron Furnaceman would have been better used in making things for the war effort in a Reserved Occupation.

The National Service (Armed Forces) Act imposed conscription on all males aged between 18 and 41 who had to register for service. Those medically unfit were exempted, as were others in key industries and jobs such as baking, farming, medicine, and engineering.
http://tinyurl.com/pbvbxuz
(leads to http://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage...but the full url would stretch the page)

Print transcription View image
First name(s) R A
Last name Smythe
Service number 57528
Regiment -
Unit / Battalion -
Originating Record WO 363. 194953 John Woodward, Royal Engineers
Series WO 363
Record set British Army Service Records 1914-1920
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory First World War
Collections from Great Britain
brightsolid online publishing ltd.

thats all the image shows,there isnt any records.

(above looks to be below)

Chris :)

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D5307083

Description: Medal card of Smyth, Robert A
Rank Royal Engineers 57528 Pioneer
Date: 1914-1920

Ah I would of thought that was him but its written down as Robert a Smyth unfortunately can't be the same as our Ralph Arthur smythe
Thank you very much for finding this information

Steph

Births Dec 1907 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Smythe Ralph Arthur Newhaven 2b 161

There isnt another R A Smythe born 1901,where was he born?