Military Chat

I am trying to get info on my Grandfather Noah Smith's military service. I think he served with the Lancashire Fusiliers in the Great War. I have a photo of him in Corps of Commissionaires uniform wearing 4 medals. He was a sergeant. Unsure of his service number. His last known address to me was 5 Empress Street Manchester, I believe he died at his nephew, Richards home in Ancoats M/cr Any help would as always be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Dave

Dave - when was he born?

Although 60-70% of WW1 records were destroyed during WW2 boming, if his survived, it might help to identify the correct person. If he remained in the Forces after 1922, his records would still be with the MOD.

The only ones coming up on Ancestry are

Noah Smith
Gender: Male
Birth Date: abt 1880
Enlistment Age: 37
Document Year: 1917
Residence Place: 27 Mill St, Langhboro
Regimental Number: 203540
Regiment Name: East Surrey Regiment
Number of Images: 2 (there's only 1 and that's burnt around the edges)
Form Title: Record of Service

Noah Smith
Gender: Male
Birth Date: abt 1881
Enlistment Age: 34
Marriage Date: 18 May 1902
Marriage Place: Evel Church Dudley
Document Year: 1915
Residence Place: 1 Brook Terrace, Cross Inn Llantrisant
Regimental Number: 175495
Regiment Name: Royal Engineers
Number of Images: 35
Form Title: Short Service Attestation
Other Records: Search for 'Noah Smith' in other WWI collections
Family Members:
Name Relation to Soldier
Noah Smith Self (Head)
Edith Jones Spouse
William Noah Smith Smith Child
Thomas Smith Smith Child

There are plenty of Medal Cards for Noah or N Smith, but without a clue as to which regiment he served in, its almost impossible to identify the correct one.

UK, WWI Service Medal and Award Rolls, 1914-1920

Noah Smith
Military Year: 1914-1920
Rank: Sergeant
Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal
Regiment or Corps: Household Cavalry and Cavalry of the Line
Regimental Number: 45316
Sub Unit: Corps of Hussars. 3rd (King's Own) Hussars
Previous Units: 3rd Hrs. 3999. Sgt.

Noah Smith
Military Year: 1914-1920
Rank: Sapper
Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal
Regiment or Corps: Royal Engineers
Regimental Number: 175495
Previous Units: Royal Engineers 175495. Spr.

Noah Smith
Military Year: 1914-1920
Rank: Sapper
Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal
Regiment or Corps: Royal Engineers
Regimental Number: 299776
Previous Units: R.F.A. 13875, Royal Engineers 299776 Spr.

????????
Noah Smith
Military Year: 1914-1920
Rank: Sergeant
Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal
Regiment or Corps: Lancashire Fusiliers <<<<<<<<<
Regimental Number: 305189
Previous Units: 1/8th Lancs Fus 305189 Col. Sgt

Noah Smith
Military Year: 1914-1920
Rank: Lance Corporal
Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal
Regiment or Corps: Welsh Regiment
Regimental Number: 33575
Previous Units: 33575. 9th Welch R Pte, 33575. Welch R. Base, 33575. 9th Welch R.

Noah Smith
Military Year: 1914-1920
Rank: Lance Corporal
Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal
Regiment or Corps: South Staffordshire Regiment
Regimental Number: 15874
Previous Units: 15874 7/S. Staff. R A/Sgt

Noah Smith
Military Year: 1914-1920
Rank: Private
Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal
Regiment or Corps: London Regiment
Regimental Number: 718222
Sub Unit: 23rd (County of London) Battalion
Previous Units: 12th Lond. R. Pte. 5913, 23rd Lond. R. 718222

Noah Smith
Military Year: 1914-1920
Rank: Private
Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal
Regiment or Corps: The Royal Welsh (Welch) Fusiliers
Regimental Number: 56599
Previous Units: Shrops. L.I. Pte. 33394 Infantry Base Depot., 1/R.W. Fus. 56599, 1/R.W. Fus.

Noah Smith
Military Year: 1914-1920
Rank: Private
Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal
Regiment or Corps: Gloucestershire Regiment
Regimental Number: 235079
Previous Units: 1/5th. S. Staffs. Regt. 203007 Pte., 2/4th. Glouc. R. 235079, 2/5th. Glouc. R. 235079

Noah Smith
Military Year: 1914-1920
Rank: Transport Corporal
Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal
Regiment or Corps: Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry
Regimental Number: 48025
Previous Units: 210th Infy: Battn: 8/9128, 8th Somerset L.I. 28464 Pte, 4th Res Som'set L.I, 28464, 7th Somerset L.I. 28464, 1st Wiltshire Regt 28459

Noah Smith
Military Year: 1914-1920
Rank: Corporal
Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal
Regiment or Corps: Labour Corps
Regimental Number: 615584
Previous Units: 22858 A/Sgt York. & Lanc. R. <<<<<<

Noah Smith
Military Year: 1914-1920
Rank: Corporal
Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal
Regiment or Corps: Royal Engineers
Regimental Number: 470485
Previous Units: R.E. (T). 982 Cpl., Royal Engineers 470485

Noah Smith
Military Year: 1914-1920
Rank: Private
Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal
Regiment or Corps: Queen's (Royal West Surrey) Regiment
Regimental Number: S/5781
Previous Units: 2nd RWS. S/5781 Pte

Noah Smith
Military Year: 1914-1920
Rank: Private
Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal
Regiment or Corps: Bedfordshire Regiment
Regimental Number: 12881
Previous Units: Bedf Regt 12881 Pte

Noah Smith
Military Year: 1914
Rank: Private
Medal Awarded: 1914 Star
Regiment or Corps: Queen's (Royal West Surrey) Regiment
Regimental Number: S.5781
Sub Unit: 2nd Battalion
...........

Even if you were to eliminate the ones with no geographical connection to Manchester, there are several to choose from. He may not even have enlisted in a Lancashire Regiment!

Hi Detective. Since posting I have come to the conclusion that My Noah, enlisted in the Lancashire Fusiliers and for some reason I cannot fathom[ other than each regt. had it's own set of Service numbers which sounds a bit weird , not to mention confusing] Noah had 3 numbers, 1- private 1735, Colour Sgt 305189 and Sgt 3433896. He was awarded 4 medals that I can see on his uniform. The 1st three are all normal as issued to the troops and one that I cannot make out. I f you can add to this I would be most pleased. Thanks for your input so far. GR always comes up tops !

"Colour Sgt 305189 "

Matches with

Noah Smith
Military Year: 1914-1920
Rank: Sergeant
Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal
Regiment or Corps: Lancashire Fusiliers
Regimental Number: 305189
Previous Units: 1/8th Lancs Fus 305189 Col. Sgt

Image says 'to 8th Lans Fus (T.F) 1 Jul 1920
.....

His medal index card

Name: Noah Smith
Regiment or Corps: Lancashire Fusiliers, Lancashire Fusiliers, 8/Lancashire Fusiliers
Regimental Number: 1735, 305189, 3433896

Image says he was awarded Victory, British and 15 Star medals with a notation that the Theatre of War he first served in was the Balkans on 5 May 1915.
Remarks – Disemb(odied?) 22 Feb 1919 – although this doesn’t correspond with the 1920 transfer to the 8th Lancs Fusiliers.

There are other comments
Ref H/2712 21919 (AG10) Roll
T.Ess AO 188 of 1925
OR/C Inf Recs Preston submits AF.E 563 re TEM d/5 Mar 1925

Although someone familiar with the various abbreviations may be able to be of more help, might he have stayed on in the Army after 1919 or even 1 Jul 1920?

If you haven't already, have a look on http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/ to see if you can get some clues

Hi Detective, This is definitely My Grandfather, he was born 4th March 1886 @ 19 Wilburn Street, Salford. If disemb? means demobbed then he could have gone to reserve at 8th LF's as a reservist [= a TF Territorial Fusilier [just guessing now] What on earth does 15 Star medals mean? Was he awarded them? This gets more and more interesting. Once again my thanks. D.

The 15 star medal is a single medal on it's own from 1915 (usually given with the Victory Medal and British War Medal). You can read about it here:-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1914%E2%80%9315_Star

Kath. x

Thanks for that Kath, begining to think he was an English Audie Murphy. Also for Detective. I just spotted what TF means.Territorial Force so it would fit with the 1920 notation.

Hi Detective, I have just been reviewing my fathers military documents [complete set from MoD] and I have noticed that while he was in the TR[territorial Reserves in 1939, he was EMBODIED as WW2 was declared and he went off to fight. So when he came back at the end of the war he was declared DISEMBODIED ! Strange use of words!

There is a discussion on another forum about the terms:-

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=106981

Kath. x