Military Chat

Can anyone help.
I am trying to trace my fathers military history but haven't a clue where to look as I don't have any information of regiment or service number.

Regards

First World War, or Second World War?

WW2 records are still with the MOD - over 70% of WW1 ones were destroyed during WW2 bombing. Records post 1922 and not restricted to WW2 are with the MOD

If you could tell us when he was born, and his names, we might be able to find 'something' or at least make some suggestions.

Despite what we make think, not all men were conscripted in the Forces. Did you get the impression that he was in the services or is it an assumption?

Thank you for replying.
My father was James Thomas Kane born in 1905 in middlesborough. All I know is that he did some military service possibly Egypt or Africa. He could have served before the 2nd ww.He worked in the steelmills in the north east so could have had a reserved occupation during WW2.
My Grandfather who was also James thomas Kane served in the Boer war and WW1. I have some of his records.
My family is very fractured and I have very scant memories of my parents.
hope this helps.
Thank you

This site gives details of how to get records after WW1.

https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records

If he served prior to WW2, he might have been a reservist and could have been called up. Have you looked on the 1939 Register on FMP? If he is not with his family it might be because he had been called up.

I am trying to find the military records for two relatives Albert Wall who was born in UK in 1877 and died at Gallipoli and John Thomas Wall born 1895 and died Sept 6 1917 WWI. Where do I start?

June,

Welcome to the boards. It would have been better to have started your own thread asking this question.

I have looked on the Commonwealth War Graves site and this is John Thomas's death:-

Rank:Serjeant
Service No:13216
Date of Death:06/09/1917
Age:22
Regiment/Service:Worcestershire Regiment 3rd Bn.
Grave Reference: II. F. 42.
Cemetery:POPERINGHE NEW MILITARY CEMETERY
Additional Information:Son of William and Harriet Wall, of Hill Cottages, Bockleton, nr. Tenbury, Worcestershire.

Using the service number given here I have looked on Findmypast (who have surviving WW1 service records and they don't appear on there. It seems as if his records were among the 70% that were destroyed in WW2.

I can't find records for Albert either.

Kath. x

Over 70% of WW1 records were destroyed during WW2 bombing. The medal cards and list of Soldiers Effects have normally survived. With info from those you can normally cobble together a rough timeline.
Most sub sites will have some of them although the Soldiers Effects (Ancestry) is a misnomer. It's really an entry saying what back pay and gratuity was due, and to whom it was paid.

Their entries on the CommonWealth war grave site - CWGC - would give you their service numbers.
Regimental diaries on Ancestry and also on line at the National Archive would give the regiments day to day movements. They probably won't be mentioned although their Company might.

Jack Wall
Army Registers of Soldiers' Effects, 1901-1929

Name: Jack Wall
Gender: Male
Death Date: 6 Sep 1917
Death Place: France
Rank: Private
Regiment: Worcestershire Regiment
Regimental Number: 13216 <<< matches CWGC service number

£20 8s sent to his father William.
.............

British Army WWI Medal Rolls Index Cards, 1914-1920
Name: J Wall
Regiment or Corps: Worcestershire Regiment
Regimental Number: 13216
Image says he was a L/Cpl and was awarded the 14 Star having entered a theatre of war on 12 Aug 1914. A notation states Deserted, Dead.
............

An image of his headstone is shown here
https://www.twgpp.org/information.php?id=3030246

Wall, John Thomas
Poperinghe New Military Cemetery - Wall, John Thomas
Cemetery: Poperinghe New Military Cemetery
Country: Belgium
Area: Poperinge West-Vlaanderen
Rank: Serjeant
Official Number: 13216
Unit: 3rd Bn. Worcestershire Regiment.
Force: Army
Nationality: British

Details:
6th September 1917. Age 22. Son of William and Harriet Wall of Hill Cottages Bockleton nr. Tenbury Worcestershire. II. F. 42.

For a donation of £4, you can order a copy of the image from the site.

Albert Wall?
https://www.twgpp.org/information.php?id=3502449

Cemetery: Helles Memorial
Country: Turkey
Area: Gallipoli
Rank: Private
Official Number: 20496
Unit: 9th Bn. Worcestershire Regiment
Force: Army
Nationality: British

Details:
07-Jan-1916 Aged 37 Son of the late Thomas and Hannah Wall, of Old Wood, St. Michael's, Tenbury Wells, Worcs. Panel 104 to 113.
.....
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/683894/WALL,%20ALBERT
WALL, ALBERT

Rank: Private
Service No: 20496
Date of Death 07/01/1916
Age: 37
Regiment/Service: Worcestershire Regiment 9th Bn.
Panel Reference:Panel 104 to 113.
Memorial:HELLES MEMORIAL

Additional Information:
Son of the late Thomas and Hannah Wall, of Old Wood, St. Michael's, Tenbury Wells, Worcs.

Albert Wall
UK, Army Registers of Soldiers' Effects, 1901-1929

Name: Albert Wall
Gender: Male
Death Date: 7 Jan 1916
Death Place: Gallipoli
Rank: Private
Regiment: Worcestershire Regiment
Regimental Number: 20496

Image says
Killed in action.

Various amounts were sent at different times to various relatives
Bro William £1 5s 5d
Sister Mary J Weager? £1 5s 5d
Bro John £1 5s 4d
Sis in law Annie Wall 12/8d for nephew JW?
Niece Millicent M Wall 12/8d
Bro Henry £1 5s 4d
Bro William £2 16s
Sis in law Mrs Ann Wall 14/-

Albert Wall
UK, WWI Service Medal and Award Rolls, 1914-1920

Name: Albert Wall
Military Year: 1914-1920
Rank: Private
Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal
Regiment or Corps: Worcestershire Regiment
Regimental Number: 20496
Previous Units: 9th Worcs. Rgt 20496 Pte

A Wall
Military Year: 1914-1915
Rank: Private
Medal Awarded: 1914-15 Star
Regiment or Corps: Worcestershire Regiment
Regimental Number: 20496

The 1914-15 Star was for men who served in a theatre of war before 31 December 1915 and who did not qualify for the earlier star. (14 Star)
1914 Star...for personnel who served with the establishment of their unit in France and Belgium between August 5th 1914, and midnight of November 22/23rd, 1914.
http://www.1914-1918.net/soldiers/themedals.html

On that basis, he first went overseas sometime between 23 Nov 1914 and 31 Dec 1915.

PM sent to June advising of replies.

sent war diaries info to june