Military Chat

Anyone help please. I have been trying to find my Grandfathers grave for the past 9 years. I am 73 and i would like to visit while i am still able to. All i have is Frederick Smith (b1893 in Islington London) married Annie Norah Kaine 27/08/1914 in Marylebone London He then joined the army and never returned. I have a medal with the inscription MIDDLESEX REGT written on the side. Kind Regards Terry

Is there by any chance a number also?...

Chris :)

Hi Chris , no all l know is what I have wrote . This is why it has been unsuccessful.I have even been on the Middlesex Regt site but to no avail.Terry

Hi Terry, WW1 medals usually have the man's name and number around the rim of the medal - has it worn off?

Can you describe the medal (or better still put a photo in your keepsafe on here and add a link to it).

I've checked the UK Register of Soldier's Effects which lists the recipients of pay and war gratuities and the next of kin who received it. If a man was married then most usually the widow would be named as the recipient but I'm not seeing any Frederick Smiths who died whilst in the Middlesex Regiment and where the legatee is named as Annie Norah (or similar).

It's possible (but probably unlikely) that he named someone else as legatee.

There are several F Smiths from the Middlesex Regiment on CWGC http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead.aspx - some of whom could be eliminated by way of age or middle names and further still if there is family information that proves it's not him.

When was the youngest of his children born? - That might help eliminate further.

There's also the possibility he was attached to another unit.

When was the child who is your parent born? Do you have the birth cert which might have his Regimental number on. If the child was born before he joined the Army, the Date would narrow down the search period.

The medal i have is i think called the black penny,4 3/4 inch diameter( i am still old school). It has his name in capitals above a lions head.He was the son of Frederick and Phyllis Smith born in Islington,London. He married Annie Norah Kain (as spelt on the marriage certificate, which i have and it just says his profession, chemists porter) 27/8/1914 and my mum Annie Norah Smith was born 28/10/1914 and my mums birth certificate says his profession is as above plus Private Middlesex Regiment

Oh, the "dead man's penny" - no, that plaque wouldn't have the service number on.

I'm suspecting that he may have moved regiments - it often happened. I'll have another look at the Register of Effects.

Just going through the possibles on CWGC:

SMITH, FREDERICK
Rank: Private
Service No: G/10357
Date of Death: 24/10/1916
Regiment/Service: Middlesex Regiment 2nd Bn.
Panel Reference: Pier and Face 12 D and 13 B.
Memorial: THIEPVAL MEMORIAL

The effects for this man went to mother and sole legatee Ellen and his war gratuity to his aunt Alice M. A. Fowler

SMITH, FREDERICK
Rank: Private
Service No: TF/202364
Date of Death: 07/10/1916
Regiment/Service: Middlesex Regiment 1st/7th Bn.
Panel Reference: Pier and Face 12 D and 13 B.
Memorial:THIEPVAL MEMORIAL

I can't find a register for this one - he lived Groombridge and enlisted at Purfleet.

This one's probably too young and I would have expected wife to be included:

SMITH, FREDERICK
Rank: Private
Service No: G/42786
Date of Death: 01/12/1917
Age: 22
Regiment/Service: Middlesex Regiment 16th Bn.
Panel Reference: Panel 9.
Memorial: CAMBRAI MEMORIAL, LOUVERVAL
Additional Information: Son of William Alfred and Mary Ann Smith, of North St., Biddenden, Kent.

We can also rule this one out:

SMITH, FREDERICK
Rank: Private
Service No: 48788
Date of Death: 27/07/1917
Age: 40
Regiment/Service: Middlesex Regiment 52nd Bn.
Grave Reference: Row 10 Grave 3.
Cemetery:CHELSFIELD (ST. MARTIN) ORPINGTON CHURCHYARD
Additional Information: Son of James and Emma Smith; husband of Lucy Smith, of Rounds, Chelsfield.

Which leaves:

SMITH, F Serjeant 10022 12/03/1915 Middlesex Regiment United Kingdom G. 36. KEMMEL CHATEAU MILITARY CEMETERY
ADDED: This one was called Frank

SMITH, F Private 44914 25/10/1918 Middlesex Regiment United Kingdom B. 35. FOREST COMMUNAL CEMETERY
ADDED: This one was called Frederick but his legatee was a friend Lily Storer

SMITH, F A Lance Corporal G/3957 22/05/1917 Middlesex Regiment United Kingdom E. 10. ST. LEGER BRITISH CEMETERY

SMITH, F G Private 201966 10/04/1917 Middlesex Regiment United Kingdom II. A. 10. LONDON CEMETERY, NEUVILLE-VITASSE

SMITH, F H Private 201178 09/04/1917 Middlesex Regiment United Kingdom Neuville-Vitasse Mill Cem. Mem., Panel 4. LONDON CEMETERY, NEUVILLE-VITASSE

SMITH, F J Private 1696 28/06/1916 Middlesex Regiment United Kingdom I. B. 76. NORFOLK CEMETERY, BECORDEL-BECOURT

SMITH, FREDERICK CHARLES Private G/7772 05/03/1916 Middlesex Regiment United Kingdom Panel 99 to 101. LOOS MEMORIAL

SMITH, FREDERICK EDWARD Private G/502 18/10/1915 Middlesex Regiment United Kingdom Panel 99 to 101. LOOS MEMORIAL

SMITH, FREDERICK GARNET Private L/12204 01/07/1916 28 Middlesex Regiment United Kingdom Pier and Face 12 D and 13 B. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL

SMITH, FREDERICK GEORGE Private G/53894 22/08/1918 32 Middlesex Regiment United Kingdom Panel 8-9. VIS-EN-ARTOIS MEMORIAL

SMITH, FREDRICK ERNEST Private 2261 03/07/1916 20 Middlesex Regiment United Kingdom Gen. 7335 (Screen Wall). TOTTENHAM CEMETERY

SMITH, FREDRICK JOSEPH Private 43262 26/04/1917 20 Middlesex Regiment United Kingdom II. I. 11A. WIMEREUX COMMUNAL CEMETERY

Searching CWGC for "Frederick Smith" any regiment died WW1 yields 752 results. That's not counting those that may just have been listed as F Smith.

Thank you all for all your replies and suggestions, will check through them all tomorrow. I am just unlucky to have, as a grandfather one who has such an obscure name(ha ! ha!) Once again thank you all for your help you are so kind, regards Terry