Military Chat

Sarah...The report in RAF Losses states : 15-June 1998...Tornado F3....ZE732 of 29 Sqdn, crashed 30 miles N.E. of Flamborough Head....."This aircraft was one of a pair engaged in an interception practice against a Hawk , mainly for the Navigator of this aircraft, who was returning to operational status from a non flying tour. The aircraft had already flown a descending profile similar to the one which led to the crash, during which they had shown good levels of crew coordination and cooperation. A successful intercept was carried out above the cloud tops at 14,000 ft and the next profile was to be flown not less than 2000 ft with this crew leading the Tornados interception. The navigator gave several height checks but these were not acknowledged by the pilot, but when the Low Altitude Warning sounded as the aircraft passed 225 ft it was too late for recovery to be made. The ADR provided evidence of the aircrafts serviceability and integrity and it seems the crew allowed themselves to become distracted by the interception task and failed to monitor their height above the sea."....Pilot: Sqd Ldr William Nichael Vivian 33........Navigator: F/Lt. Derek Stuart Lacey 33.....

Thank you for your replies, I have no wish to be disrespectful to any of the families or memories of these men. However I am interested in this as it happened just off the coast from where I live and is still talked about from time to time. To answer the reply that suggests one of the aircrew found had been in the sea for some time. The body was found the following day. So I would not think DNA profiling would have been a problem even in 1998. Many the papers both local and national reported the tragedy at the time, I am only asking questions that seem for the most part unanswered.
As a military crash, one would assume so close to the British shore and boundary of territorial waters, that the body(ies) would be brought onto UK soil. I suppose if there was some purpose in recovery a body to another country, then I suppose any paperwork relating to the deaths might be written up there..
S

This has been asked on another forum in 2014 used by RAF personel and was met with very abrasive answers by some who personally knew these men and wouldnt give out any details as a mark of respect for something that happened so long ago,




Perhaps the information being sought hasnt been released into the public domain or made public knowledge and probally known only to close family.

Have you tried under the Freedom of Information,?

Is it just a valid interest or for more personal reasons.







***Both men were married with young families. A Ministry of Defence spokesman said: "It has not been possible to identify the recovered body. The two men were very well liked individuals and will be sadly missed by everyone in their community. It is always sad when men like this die but when they have young families it is especially tragic."
***
Names were never released.

Sarah

You can find information about Wills/Grants here

Both men are showing on the search for 1998

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills

If they had found a whole body they would have been able to identify the body. They would have been able to use DNA and dental identification.

All air crew have to have their teeth "mapped", every filling and other dental work are carefully drawn for identifying reasons. Aircrew have an annual dental inspection and if new work required it is "mapped" onto the chart.

This sounds like a small section of body was found having been in the sea for sometime, hence no DNA.

Hope this helps. I was a WRAF dental nurse. :-)

One report I read said that they weren't able to identify the body. I suspect it was probably a very small part of a body that they recovered.

In all probability one of the certificates would say 'Missing, presumed dead'.

Once again thank you for the information, I have read the official report before, outside of British territory makes sense. It still does not answer if it was Derek Lacey, or William Vivian who was found.

The official report shows that they were 30 miles over the North Sea so probably outside of British territory hence an overseas registration with country unknown.

http://www.ukserials.com/pdflosses/maas_19980615_ze732.pdf

Report here says that there were only the 2 crew members and both were killed.

http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=55408

Edit: Sorry, Sarah, I misread your post. I thought you were saying that there was a third person who was found but you meant only one body found. One report says that they were unable to identify the body.

Thank you very much for the information, I would never have thought to look overseas. I wonder why they would be registered overseas when ZE732 crashed just off Flambrough head East Yorkshire.
S

Both deaths were registered. Have you purchased the death certificates from GRO to see what they say?

British Overseas and Armed Forces Deaths

First name(s) DEREK STUART
Last name LACEY
Gender Male
Birth year 1964
Birth day 20
Birth month 8
Death year 1998
Place M.O.D. (AIR)
Country UNKNOWN
Record source GRO Deaths Abroad Indices (1995 to 2005)
Type F (British armed forces - Army, Royal Air Force and Royal Navy)
Page 42

First name(s) WILLIAM MICHAEL
Last name VIVIAN
Gender Male
Birth year 1965
Birth day 18
Birth month 3
Death year 1998
Place M.O.D. (AIR)
Country UNKNOWN
Record source GRO Deaths Abroad Indices (1995 to 2005)
Type F (British armed forces - Army, Royal Air Force and Royal Navy)
Page 41

I am searching for information about an aircraft that tragically crashed off Flambrough head on June the 15th 1998. The aircraft was Tornado ZE732. The pilot was William Michael Vivian and the navigator was Derek Stuart Lacey. Both men were killed in the accident, however one of the aircrew was found. But I cannot find accurate information to say who was found. I am in no way trying to be disrespectful to the memories of these poor men.
S