Military Chat

I would just like to take a moment to thank everyone who has helped me over the last year. I am so grateful to you all, the information you have given me has been wonderful & I have learned so much about my family . I would never have done it without your help so once again 'Thank you '.
Silwyn
Wonky woman :-)

I would just like to take a moment to thank everyone who has helped me over the last year. I am so grateful to you all, the information you have given me has been wonderful & I have learned so much about my family . I would never have done it without your help so once again 'Thank you '.
Silwyn
Wonky woman :-)

WARLINCOURT HALTE BRITISH CEMETERY, SAULTY is 22km E of Arras, and the front line would be W of Arras, maybe 30+km away. I'm sure there are British cemeteries nearer than this to where Percy was wounded, so I would guess he was wounded on or before 27/12/16, was stretchered to the RAP (Regimental Aid Post), and from there, taken by one of the 29th division's 3 field ambulance coys to one of the 2 CCS's at Saulty, where he died - it must have been something like this for him to be buried in some cemetery 30km away when there were others much nearer.

I don't know if it had started by 1916, but certainly a year later, CCS's were specializing, so the 20th CCS might specialize in wounds to the torso, and the 43rd might specialize in head and limb wounds, or gassings or whatever (I don't KNOW anything abt these two CCSs).

I've not studied any UK service records with woundings, but I've seen Canadian service records, and these usually name the CCS (and the Hospital he was usually sent on to), and often give the field ambulance coy that took him to the CCS.

Thank you so much for this information, I now know where Percy was on that awful day. Thank you again.
Regards
Silwyn
Wonky woman

Have now sent Silwyn an extract from the Monmouthshire Regt 1st Battalion diaries for the month of December 1916.

This is the full entry in the diary for the day of 27 Dec 1916 when Percy died:

SOUASTRE Dec 27th 1916 "Working parties as usual. Casualties, other ranks, 1 killed, 2 died of wounds, 1 wounded. "A" coy in LINCOLN LANE"


Had Percy been an officer then he would have been named.

Silwyn and I had been in correspondence a few months ago following previous posts and I've already sent Percy's service records.

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/military_chat/thread/1350217

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/military_chat/thread/1350353

I'm just browsing now through the 1st Battalion Monmouth's diary on Ancestry and will send Silwyn the pages for a day or so each side of Percy's date of death. Rank and file casualties aren't (usually) named but it will give an idea of what was going on at the time.

Rank:Rifleman
Service No:3768
Date of Death:27/12/1916
Age:28
Regiment/Service:Monmouthshire Regiment 1st Bn.
Grave Reference: IV. E. 9.
Cemetery:WARLINCOURT HALTE BRITISH CEMETERY, SAULTY
Additional Information:Husband of Rose May Turner, of 3, Hill Rd., Abertysswg, Cardiff.

Historical Information
The site of the cemetery was chosen in May 1916. It was used from June 1916 to May 1917 by the 20th and 43rd Casualty Clearing Stations



Rank:Serjeant
Service No:82535
Date of Death:01/11/1918
Regiment/Service:Royal Engineers 14th Bde. Signal Sub. Sect.
Grave Reference: III. A. 8.
Cemetery:AWOINGT BRITISH CEMETERY
Additional Information:Husband of E. Vest, of 26, Mount Libanus St., Treherbert (Rhondda), Glam.

Historical Information
Awoingt British Cemetery was begun in the latter half of October 1918 and used until the middle of December; the village had been captured on 9/10 October. By 28 October, the 38th, 45th and 59th Casualty Clearing Stations were posted in the neighbourhood, and the great majority of the burials were made from those hospitals

If you look at the image of Sid's grave registration report, his unit is typed as 14th Bde RFA.
However, this is corrected in red ink by crossing out RFA, and inserting RHA Sig Subsec RE


http://www.1914-1918.net/rha.htm
As with all elements of the regular army, these units were, after being mobilised in August 191,4 manned by a mixture of serving regulars, army and Special Reservists. From around October 1914 they began to be supplemented by wartime recruits and by the war's end the majority of the complement of most regular units were not career soldiers. The regular brigades were generally under command of the British or Indian cavalry divisions, but a shortage of field artillery by late 1914 meant that some were at first joined to the newly-formed 7th, 8th and 29th Infantry Divisions.

XIV Originally C and F Batteries RHA. Under 7th Division Sept 1914 to Feb 1917, when became an Army Brigade RHA. C moved to 3rd Cavalry Division, joining XV Bde in Oct 1914. T Battery joined from Egypt in Dec 1914. D/XIV joined from Corps June 1915. A section from each of 31 and 35 Howitzer Batteries joined May 16 and redesignated D Batt. 509 (H) joined Oct 1916, but broken up Feb 1917. B/CLXIX and a section of C/CLXIX joined Feb 1917, redesignated C/XIV. F and T Batteries were re-armed with 18-lbr guns June 1915.

See also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XIV_Brigade,_Royal_Horse_Artillery


I don't know hoe you'ld find his parent RE unit - I found my grandad's unit on one of his medal cards -it's echoed in the London Gazette posting.
However, I think the RHA signals units would stay with their RHA unit - it's the sort of practice that would help explain the markef general improvement of the RA in WW1

So perhaps, to find out what actions he was in, the 14th Bde RHA's war diaries are the best rout.
There's 4 of them, but his medal card should say what date he entered a theatre of war, so maybe you can skip some of the earlier ones.

The general procedure for finding war diaries (which are in class WO95) is to go to:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
and select advanced search, then search for:
(All of these words) 14 horse artillery
(Search within reference) wo95

Here's the link to download the Diary - cost £3.30

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7354489

His service records are on Findmypast (sorry I can't send them - perhaps someone else can). A lot of the pages are just blank.

His war medals were sent to his widow Mrs. R. M. Carter of 3 Hill Road. (Abertysswg??) Monmouthshire.

Kath. x

Hello again MarieCele, you have helped me previously. I am trying to find out about my grandfather Percy Havelock Turner who died on 27th December 1916 in France, I sent for his death cert & it just said ' Died of wounds '. I thought maybe the diary would give me more information. I did the same for my husband's grandfather Henry Sidney Vest who died on 1st November 1918 also in France, his death cert was the same. I'm hoping I will be able to find out more.
Regards
Silwyn ( Wonky woman)

War diaries for WW1 are available - they can be found on National Archives and cost £3.30 each to download:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/british-army-war-diaries-1914-1922/

Those diaries are also now available on Ancestry.

Outside of WW1 then information may be available from the specific regiment.

If there's some information in particular that you're after just say and we'll see if we can help.

There's a little information on them here:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/british-army-war-diaries-1914-1922/

When I watched ' Who do you think you are' there have been times when the person doing the research has had access to the diaries of the regiment their ancestor was part of. Is this available to us ?