Military Chat

Perhaps he was married twice then (before having two children unmarried!). You know I seem to recall this was the case now going on what I was told by CWG's grandson! So that would all make sense, thank you ever so much for finding that info.

That also fits in with an 1891 enlistment date, he would have been 18, and I guess sent straight to Mhow with the regiment? The photo I have of him, as I said, was taken in Mhow. He looks quite young.

Fantastic, thanks again.
Russell

Have found a clue to enlistment date, at least to the 7th Hussars, on this site:

http://tinyurl.com/qdwjulh

we know from the medal record that CWG's regimental number was 3620

3481 joined on 23rd October 1890
3516 joined on 12th January 1891
3675 joined on 13th January 1892

so it looks like CWG joined the regiment sometime in 1891, but whether he enlisted for the first time, or transferred from another regiment, is another matter.

you asked when the regiment was in Mhow:

The site I posted earlier

http://www.britishempire.co.uk/forces/armyunits/britishcavalry/7thhussars.htm

says of the regiment

"In Oct 1891 they moved to Mhow. In 1893 three of their officers died in a boating accident at Poona, Lieuts Crawley, Sutton and the Hon HP Verney."

HI Russell,

This marriage on FreeBMD seems to tie in with the 1901 census I posted for CWG, that census said army pensioner born c1874 Maidstone, so I'm pretty sure it was him:

Marriages Jun 1899
Gray Charles Walter Bridge 2a 1741
Grey Charles Walter Bridge 2a 1741
Wood Sarah Bertha Bridge 2a 1741

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Wondering if this is first wife Sarah's death as her age and the location seem spot on:

Deaths Dec 1912 Gray Sarah B 44 Bridge 2a 1014

The couple in 1911:

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Jubilee Road Littlebourne Canterbury Kent, Littlebourne, Kent, England

Sarah Wood Head Widow Female - 81 1830 Kent Wickhambreaux
Sarah Bertha Gray Daughter Married Female - 42 1869 Kent Littlebourne<<<<<<<<<<
Charles Walter Gray Son-In-Law - Male Army Pensioner Bootr Repairer 37 1874 Kent Maidstone<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Image says married 12 years, no children born of marriage.

Hi all, thanks ever so much for this info, fantastic.

I am not sure who Sarah A Gray was, or Sarah B Gray. I know CWG's mother was Rose Brown, and his paternal grandmother was Rachel Hills.

I know that CWG married in Canterbury (where I believe the 7th was based, certainly in 1895) to widow Clara Jane (Percival married name, Phillips maiden name) in 1914. I did not know he was married before this?

However in 1919 he was then down in Portsmouth and had my great grandmother with another woman named Mary Kemp, although Kemp was a married name and her maiden name was Hammond. They never married and lived at different addresses in 1919, but had another child in 1921. Not sure what happened to Mary as I think my great grandmother and her brother had to live in an orphanage for a while.

Would be interesting to see if the 13th and 7th Hussars saw action together.

Thanks again for this information, much appreciated.

Kind regards,
Russell

I can't readily spot CWG in the 1891 census, so either I'm not searching very well, or might he already have enlisted in the army and gone overseas?

CWG was with his parents at 80, Wheeler St, Maidstone in 1881. A lady named Sarah A Gray was living at 208 Wheeler Street (the address on the medal roll) in 1881, perhaps she was CWG's gran? EDIT, on the other hand, CWG's widowed mother Rose was living with an elderly Rachel Gray in 1901., So perhaps Sarah is some other relative.

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census

208, Wheeler Street, Maidstone, Kent, England

Sarah A Gray Head Widow Female 65 1816 Formerly Laundress Maidstone, Kent, England

By 1891 CWG's mother Rose and several of her children had moved to 208 Wheeler St.

By 1901 the family had moved out. Rose was widowed, and CWG had married as I'm sure you know already.

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Jubilee Road, Littlebourne, Littlebourn, Bridge, Kent, England

Sarah Wood Head Widow Female 71 1830 Living On Own Means Wickhambreaux, Kent, England
Sarah B Gray Daughter Married Female 32 1869 - Littlebourne, Kent, England
Charles W Gray Son-In-Law Married Male 27 1874 Army Pensioner Maidstone, Kent, England
Alfred Gray Visitor - Male 12 1889 - Maidstone, Kent, England

That's a good spot by DET.

If you want to know more about the regiment at that time, Amazon has:

http://tinyurl.com/p9hc6pw


The 7th (Queen's Own) Hussars: On Campaign During the Canadian Rebellion, the Indian Mutiny, the Sudan, Matabeleland, Mashonaland and the Boer War-Vo: ... and the Boer War-Volume 3: 1818-1914 Paperback – 6 Aug 2008
by C. R. B. Barrett (Author)


Paperback version just under £10.

Paperback: 240 pages
Publisher: LEONAUR (6 Aug. 2008)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 1846775191
ISBN-13: 978-1846775192

It does cover a century though, rather than just the few years you are interested in.

Not sure if this might be of interest to you or not. it's an account of the Matabele Campaign of 1896, by Lord Baden Powell, but he was with the 13th Hussars, rather than the 7th.

I have no idea if the 13th and the 7th were together or apart during the campaign, and thus whether there is any overlap in what Lord B-P writes of, and what CWG might have experienced.

http://www.africafederation.net/matabele.pdf

The editor does warn

"Editor’s Note:

The reader is reminded that these texts have
been written a long time ago. Consequently, they
may use some terms or use expressions which were current at the time, regardless of what we may think of them at the beginning of the 21
st century. For reasons of historical accuracy they have been preserved
in their original form. "

If you don't mind paying £25, The Queen's Own Hussar Museum would undertake research for you

http://www.qohmuseum.org.uk/historicalresearch.htm

This is just the result of googling so you may have it already, but as we now know, CWG was involved in the Matabele wars at least in 1896 and 1897.

Matabeleland 1896-7

On Board the Goth

The regiment were ordered to sail to Natal once more, in Oct 1895, having handed over their horses to the 20th Hussars. In Natal they inherited the horses of the 3rd Dragoon Guards and went by train to Pietermaritzburg. This was a routine posting but while there trouble flared up in Matabeleland so 9 months after their arrival 3 squadrons, under the command of Lt-Col Harold Paget, had go to to Mafeking where troops were being assembled. This involved a return to Durban where they embarked on the 'Goth' bound for East London further down the coast, from there they could travel by train. Throughout 1896 the regiment operated in the area of Gwelo which is in the middle of Southern Rhodesia (Zimbabwe), patrolling regularly alongside Mounted Infantry made up with men from the 2nd Yorks and Lancs. The column was usually commanded by Colonel Baden-Powell. They rarely found any large groups of the Matabele warriors who had caused the trouble, and their main task was to seize stocks of grain and any cows and goats they could find to starve the warriors into submission. Kraals and stores of arms and ammunition were destroyed. On Sep 18th, however, a patrol of 12 men under Baden-Powell captured a woman who told them the whereabouts of a group from M'tini's Impi. A boy offered to lead them and they surprised the group in their kraal and surrounded them with drawn swords. In the middle of October a battle was fought to capture Chief Wedza which lasted 4 days. In November A and D squadrons marched to Bulawayo where a camp had been prepared for them. In 1897 D Squadron was sent north of Bulawayo, commanded by Major Ridley, to raid the stronghold of Chief Matzwetzwe. They attacked at dawn on 12th July but it proved too difficult so they laid siege until the warriors surrendered. On 24th July B and A Squadrons joined in an attack on the stronghold of Mashigombi. The enemy were in fortified caves which had to be dynamited. It took 3 days to defeat them.

The Matabele rising was put down but another trouble spot arose in Mashonaland. The local white population were unhappy that the government had not taken measures to prevent the stealing of cattle by the Mashona people and so the patrols of Hussars and Mounted Infantry were sent out to deal with the culprits. On 7th July 1897 Major Ridley's column attacked M'guilse where a trooper was killed and Ridley was wounded in the leg. And on 14th July a detachment under Captain Poore killed 40 rebels at Umtzewa's kraal near Fort Charter without any casualties of their own. On 24th July The 3 squadrons of the 7th met up with a column of police and Vryburg Volunters to attack Mashingombi's stronghold. He was the main leader of the Mashona rebellion. The British/Rhodesian force was commanded by Sir Richard Martin and the 7th Hussars were commanded by Captains Carew and Poore. The attack started at dawn and the Mashonas were scattered. They took refuge in the many caves that pitted the surrounding hills and caused trouble on the following days and nights firing down on the troops. Mashingombi himself was killed along with many others and 400 prisoners were taken. Casualties among the hussars were few although Private Dands was reported killed. Captain Carew led a further attack on Marlie's kraal capturing another 100 prisoners. He then split the 7th into 2 coloumns to move down the river Unfuli to Fort Charter. Patrols continued to be sent out but the remaining chiefs had all surrendered by the end of September. The 7th were ordered to embark at Beira on 20th Oct with Major Ridley back in command. The conduct of the regiment was reported as being of a very high standard and the 2 squadrons that remained in Pietermaritzburg had maintained a high state of discipline.

http://www.britishempire.co.uk/forces/armyunits/britishcavalry/7thhussars.htm

Just found him in the medal index for the 1896 medal:

Name: C W Gray
Campaign or Service: Matabele Wars
Service Date: 1893-1897
Service Location: Africa
Regiment or Unit Name: 7th Queens Own Hussars
Regimental Number: 3620

here he is a Lce Corpl, whereas he is only listed as a private in the later record I've already posted. Image sent.

Hi Russell,

I haven't been able to find Charles' service record on FindMy Past, maybe someone else will have more luck! :-(

You seem to have already found out quite a bit about the 7th Hussars.

This mention of CWG on the Medal Rolls bears out what you've already said, and gives us his regimental number:

Military Campaign Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1949

Name: C W Gray
Campaign or Service: Matabele Wars
Service Date: 1893-1897
Service Location: Africa
Regiment or Unit Name: 7th Hussars
Regimental Number: 3620

His address is given as 208 Wheeler St, Maidstone Kent, and it states he was invalided home 16.6.98 as wounded.

He was already entitled to a medal for Rhodesia in 1896, so was just entitled to a clasp for 1897.

Sorry it's so little, I'll pm you the image.

Hello all,

I'm using my mum's account to add a topic here as she has a membership and I don't, hope that is ok!

My great great grandfather served in the 7th Hussars regiment and I wonder if anyone has any access to military records in order to fill in some gaps!

His name was Charles Walter Gray, born 1873 in Maidstone, Kent. I do not know when he joined the Army.

I have a photo of him from when he was stationed in Mhow, India. I know the 7th Hussars went to India in Nov 1886, and stayed in India until 1895. I don't know when he went out there, I don't know what years they were in Mhow.

The 7th Hussars then went to South Africa and Rhodesia. In 1896/97 they were tasked with quelling a native rebellion in Mashonaland. The following was in the London Gazette in 1898:

GRAY, Charles, Private, 7th Hussars; wounded in left leg (since amputated), near Charter, July 16, 1897

He lost his leg, and recuperated at Netley Military Hospital.

What I'd really like to know is some background info on the 7th Hussars if anybody can find that sort of thing out, I've looked online and stuff but it would be nice to see if he has a service record, what year they were in Mhow, India, and if there's any other mention of a battle/skirmish in July 1897 where he lost his leg.

Long shot I know but I appreciate any info that will give some depth to my information!

Kind regards,

Russell Masters