Military Chat

I would quite like a busty blond who had a weakness for fatherly type men! Oops, RR'd again.

Wicked Bob .. She would have approved of that ... Ahhh the late Diana Dors though - interesting lady and paranoid about the tax man apparently - she is reportedly supposed to have had many accounts where she stashed away cash but under different secret names only accessible by a cipher and the use of secret codes to access them....

She was a brain for sure . So indeed was her US version - Marylyn Monroe ... Just a weakness for fatherly type men but then she had been a kid in a Children's home ..

Bless em all ..

Diana Dors' name was really Fluck. There is a story that when she became famous and changed her name, she was being introduced at a fair or something that she was opening in her home town, by a local dignitary who had known her since childhood. He was so nervous about the name that he kept repeating over and over in his mind, Diana Dors, Diana Dors, Diana Dors. When came the moment, he blurted out, "Ladies and gentlemen, the person you have all been waiting for - Diana Clunt" Please don't RR this. Bob

Any Nelson's in there Bob ? Just kidding :-)

In my gun quarter (Birmingham) ancestry I found a Henry Fluck Arnold ... His mom Sarah Arnold had him out of wedlock .. So I checked if there had been a local man named Henry Fluck who she could have had a lliason with - sure enough there had been but he left the area before his son was born ... Dirty dog .. :-)

I have two ancestors, a g.g.gfather, and a Gt uncle with middle name Trafalgar.

Bob

FYI - its often useful to have unusual name permutations for family-finding purposes. I recall that Ancestry.co.uk do have access to old electoral lists going back to the 1920's or more I think ..So it is possible to nail down unusual names with addresses quite quickly ... Just a thought really .... It's kinda like paying respects from afar - looking up old departed friends family addresses . I know , I have done it too ..

Kind regards

Paul

Kucinta, I replied to your PM in my inbox. But for anyone else interested, an army colleague recently deceased, was John Herbert Tovey, and I remember that his father was Augustus Herbert. (You don't forget names like that). They were living in New Addington, near Croydon, in the sixties. I have no other connection to the family, it was just a matter of interest. Bob

There is an Augustus Herbert Tovey born in the London area, not Bristol :

Births Dec 1909 TOVEY Augustus Herbert Lambeth 1d 261

Family were London based:

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census

3 Marsala Road Lewisham SE, Lewisham, London, England

Herbert Thomas Tovey Head Married Male 28 1883 Barnsbury Islington Carman
Mabel Tovey Wife Married Female 24 1887 Lambeth London
Augustus Herbert Tovey Son - Male 1 1910 Lambeth London <<<<<<<
Ernest Thomas Tovey Son - Male 0 1911 Lewisham London

Bob ...

No I do not recognise that name at all .. There was a Robert Tovey (my genetic father's younger brother) but he died a few years back now so I was told .. Robert was a twin with his sister (dizygotic twins) .. Thanks for taking an interest ..

Kind Regards

Paul

Just a long shot Paul, but do you have an Augustus Herbert, or Herbert Augustus Tovey in your tree? Probably born around 1910-15.

Yeah got it .... Thankyou again Kucinta

Probable birth to tie in with the baptism:

Births Sep 1893 Tovey Sidney Bedminster 5c 666

Duh!

Didn't think of christening records re Sidney.

Here it is. No image, so can't look to see if a birthdate was recorded.

First name(s) Sidney
Last name Tovey
Baptism year 1893
Baptism date 15 Sep 1893
Baptism place Bedminster, Down Mission Church, Somersetshire, England
Father's first name(s) Philip
Father's last name Tovey
Mother's first name Elizabeth
Mother's last name Tovey
Place Bedminster, Down Mission Church
Town Bristol
County Gloucestershire
Country England
Record set Gloucestershire, Bristol Baptism Index 1660-1914
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Births & baptisms

https://familysearch.org/

has quite a few baptisms for children of Philip and Elizabeth Tovey; not sure if it has the full baker's dozen mentioned in census 1911, but you may well have checked those out already .

Kucinta !

You are a wizzery-kid for sure ... Probably have a gene for a super fast road runner - but well done and many thanks for helping me here .. It's good of you to give me time like this .

To answer you :

Yes I had seen that Tovey marriage Clifton ref ... It threw me though ... Most of the St John's ref's do make logical sense since the church is close to West Street and is on this Bedminster-Tovey axis of my studies.

Strangely enough in my notes, taken over the phone from an aged Tovey aunt, I have a "Francis Stone" reference - but it's mixed up with the entirely the wrong person ... Oh dear it happens - we all get frail in memory ..

But yes the story goes that Philip's first wife was Mary Ann Webster and it was implied to me she had died . His second wife was indeed supposed to be Elizabeth Gardener (etc)

You have cracked it though with that geneo-tweakery and unravelling the Francis Stone ref and the fact that both Elizabeth and Philip were widowers.. Hah !

The christening refs are a plus for me - I suppose since I was looking at old maps and reading them as I do by "walking down their streets" and old crow flying , that Church St John attracted me a lot .. Not the least because Sidney Tovey - him of the football skills of the Bedminster Trams for whom he worked 38 years for , had that church right at the back of the Tram depot ..

What a small and complex world it was for them . Compact and close .. Contained . I envy them in some ways .. I wonder why Clifton ? St Jude ? I suppose Elizabeth had family over that way ... I was fancying she came from the Gardeners over that way who were very rich ... Oh well that's just a typical ego fantasy of the truly dispossessed .. :))

But I like the truth ... :-) Its like a cake really ... It's edible and real ... :-)

What can I say but thanks .. Is there a photo perhaps you have you would like me to restore a little better than what it is ... I have a few skills in that dept ?

Kind regards a slow runner .... Paul ..

Possible for Elizabeth with a father named John, in Wells, in 1851:


1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Portway, Saint Cuthbert Wells, Wells, Somerset, England

John Gardiner Head Married Male 36 1815 Carpenter Joiner (Journeyman) Wells, Somerset, England<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Eliza Gardiner Wife Married Female 26 1825 Paper Maker (Journeywoman) Wells, Somerset, England
Frederick Gardiner Son - Male 5 1846 Scholar Wells, Somerset, England
Elizabeth Gardiner Daughter - Female 4 1847 - Wells, Somerset, England <<<<<<
Charles Gardiner Son - Male 1 1850 - Wells, Somerset, England

By 1861 the family had moved to Bristol:

Name: Elizabeth Gardner
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: 1847
Relation: Daughter (Child)
Father's name: John Gardner
Mother's name: Eliza Gardner
Gender: Female
Where born: Wells, Somerset, England
Civil Parish: Bristol Temple
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Household Members:
Name Age
John Gardner 48 c1813 Wells, Somerset, England
Eliza Gardner 38 c1823 Wells, Somerset, England
Frederick Gardner 15 c1846 Wells, Somerset, England
Elizabeth Gardner 14 c1847 Wells, Somerset, England<<<<
Jane Gardner 8 c1853 Wells, Somerset, England
Charlotte Gardner 4 c1857 Wells, Somerset, England
Mary Gardner 1 c1860 Wells, Somerset, England
James Curnick 45
Charlotte Curnick 76
Jane Morgan 22
Harriet Morgan 15

I think the Curnicks are a separate household within the same building.

Baptisms for Louisa and 'Rose'


First name(s) Louisa
Last name Tovey
Baptism year 1869
Baptism date 19 Jul 1869
Baptism place Bedminster, St John, Somersetshire, England
Father's first name(s) Philip
Father's last name Tovey
Mother's first name Marianne
Mother's last name Tovey
Place Bedminster, St John
Town Bristol
County Gloucestershire
Country England
Record set Gloucestershire, Bristol Baptism Index 1660-1914
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Births & baptisms

First name(s) Rosina Ann
Last name Tovey
Baptism year 1865
Baptism date 21 Sep 1865
Baptism place Bedminster, St John, Somersetshire, England
Father's first name(s) Philip
Father's last name Tovey
Mother's first name Mary Ann
Mother's last name Tovey
Place Bedminster, St John
Town Bristol
County Gloucestershire
Country England
Record set Gloucestershire, Bristol Baptism Index 1660-1914
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Births & baptisms
Collections from Great Britain

Philip with Mary Ann in census 1871:


1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census

West Street, Bedminster, Somerset, England<<<<<<<<<<<

Phillip Tovey Head - Male 30 1841 - Somerset, England (Coal miner born Bristol)
Mary A Tovey Wife - Female 27 1844 - Somerset, England (Tailoress born Bristol)
Rose A Tovey Daughter - Female 5 1866 - Somerset, England
Lousia Tovey Daughter - Female 1 1870 - Somerset, England

Daughters also dittoed as born Bristol.

The family in 1881,still in West Street, with daur Louisa from the first marriage Think Philip should be 39, not 59!!. Have no idea where son Albert was in the 1871:


1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census

21, West Street, Bedminster, Somerset, England

Philip Tovey Head Married Male 59 1822 Coal Miner Bedminster, Somerset, England
Elizabeth Tovey Wife Married Female 32 1849 Laundress Wells, Somerset, England
Albert Tovey Son Single Male 18 1863 Coal Miner Bedminster, Somerset, England
Louisa Tovey Daughter Single Female 12 1869 Scholar Bedminster, Somerset, England
Ellen Tovey Daughter Single Female 8 1873 Scholar Bedminster, Somerset, England
Philip Tovey Son Single Male 10 1871 Scholar Bedminster, Somerset, England
Jane Tovey Daughter Single Female 4 1877 Scholar Bedminster, Somerset, England
Emily Tovey Daughter Single Female 1 1880 - Bedminster, Somerset, England

EDIT: Seems little Albert was with his Webster grandparents in 1871, also in West Street:


1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census

West Street, Bedminster, Somerset, England

John Webster Head - Male 66 1805 - Somerset, England
Elizabeth Webster Wife - Female 65 1806 - Somerset, England
Albert Tovey Grandson - Male 8 1863 - Somerset, England

Is this a possible first marriage for Philip Tovey? He was a widower when he married Elizabeth Stone nee Gardiner in 1873:

First name(s) Philip<<<<<<<<<<<<
Last name Tovey<<<<<<<<<<<
Sex Male
Marital status Single
Marriage year 1864
Marriage date 01 Feb 1864
Marriage place Bristol, St Jude, Gloucestershire, England
Father's first name(s) John<<<<<<<<<<
Father's last name Tovey<<<<<<<<<
Spouse's first name(s) Mary Ann
Spouse's last name Webster
Spouse's sex Female
Spouse marital status Single
Spouse's father's first name(s) John
Spouse's father's last name Webster
Place Bristol, St Jude
County Gloucestershire
Country England
Record set Gloucestershire, Bristol Marriage Index 1644-1939

Death of the bride?

Deaths Mar 1872 Tovey Mary Ann 26 Bedminster 5c 525

Census 1851:

Age for Philip a bit out (though I suppose we don't know how old he was at baptism), with parents named John and Caroline.

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census

West Bank Side, West Street, Bedminster, Somerset, England<<<<<

John Tovey Head Married Male 51 1800 Coal Miner Bedminster, Somerset, England<<<<<<<<<<<
Caroline Tovey Wife Married Female 50 1801 - Bedminster, Somerset, England <<<<
Joseph Tovey Son Unmarried Male 18 1833 Coal Miner Bedminster, Somerset, England
Eliza Tovey Daughter Unmarried Female 16 1835 - Bedminster, Somerset, England
Caroline Tovey Daughter Unmarried Female 14 1837 - Bedminster, Somerset, England
Philip Tovey Son Unmarried Male 10 1841 - Bedminster, Somerset, England <<<<<
Thomas Tovey Son - Male 7 1844 - Bedminster, Somerset, England
Emma Tovey Daughter - Female 3 1848 - Bedminster, Somerset, England
Sarah Vining Lodger Unmarried Female 20 1831 Pauper Bristol, Gloucestershire, England

Baptism of Philip Tovey c1843 Bedminster Bristol, with father named John Tovey as per his marriage to Elizabeth in 1873:

First name(s) Philip
Last name Tovey
Sex Male
Baptism year 1843
Baptism date 26 Feb 1843
Baptism place Bedminster, St John, Somersetshire, England
Father's first name(s) John
Father's last name Tovey
Mother's first name Caroline
Mother's last name Tovey
Place Bedminster, St John
Town Bristol
County Gloucestershire
Country England
Record set Gloucestershire, Bristol Baptism Index 1660-1914
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Births & baptisms
Collections from Great Britain