Military Chat

I am trying to find out the circumstances of a relative who is stated as being killed in action in France on 30 December 1918. There is no grave but he is commemorated on the Vis-en-artois memorial, France. His name is Frederick Joseph Taylor born Gestingthorpe, Essex 1899 & he served with the 21st London Regiment as private 656174 which became the 3rd City of London Royal Fusiliers private 279088. He had a twin brother, Sidney Harold Taylor, who survived the war. Neither Frederick or Sidney's service records survive.
How can someone be killed in action after the end of the war? If he died of his injuries or of illness then there would be a body. This is my dilemma !

It is a mystery. I would suggest you contact the CWGC and ask them:
http://www.cwgc.org/about-us/contact-us.aspx

Hello Hatty, I've come across men being classed as Killed in Action as late as 1919.

It's possible that he had previously been missing and it was determined at a later date that they were actually Killed in Action.

Also, the soldiers didn't go straight home so possibly any death while they were still on active service overseas may have been deemed KiA.

You could have a look on the National Archives to see if their regiments war diaries are on there.

Hello Hatty

What is your source for the expression "Killed in Action". It would be helpful to know that in taking this further

Thank you all for your thoughts. The KIA came from the CD Soldiers Killed in the First World War which also lists where the soldiers enlisted and the regiments they served with. Family rumour was that Frederick Taylor survived the war but was so shell shocked he spent the rest of his life in an institution so I was very surprised to find his death record. He is not commemorated on the Gestingthorpe war memorial which I find strange as his family were still there until the early 1920's.

Hatty, were you aware that his WW1 war medals were unclaimed?

He got the Victory and the British War medal but there is a note "retd 1743 KR"

Kings Regulations 1743 means "Medals which at the end of 10 years, still remain unclaimed will be sent to the India Office (if granted for India Service) or to the deputy director of ordnance stores, Royal Dockyard (Medal Branch), Woolwich (if granted for other service) to be broken up. (Army Order 340 of 1913)".

Given that his medal card would have been annotated 10 years after the medals were issued it's surprising that there isn't a note on that he was KiA.

If you don't have the card I can send it to you.

Also that in Turkey the war did go on for longer.

Many of the old WW1 veterans never called it the 1914-1918 war but the 1914 -1919 war.

My grandfather did not come home until October 1919.

So KIA after the 11 - 11 - 1918 would not be unusual.

Also his wifes cousin was not declared officially dead until 1922 as his mother would not accept that he had died as there had been many conflicting stories around whether or not he had actually died. It was a truly tragic story which I only discovered during my research, even the bloke who found it (long before records were available via Ancestry) said he had never seen such complete WW1 records, not felt so sorry for the mother left behind. And there was never a body. <3

Thank you Marie-Celeste for your explanation re; the medal card. I can find the image on Ancestry but thanks for offering. It doesn't surprise me his medals were never picked up as I think the family were rather bitter about the many losses it suffered. Frederick's cousin Nathan W Coe died as a result of his injuries at Gallipoli, he managed to get back to England but died soon after landing, he is buried in a parish churchyard but not with a CWGC headstone and I have a telegram saying that the army wouldn't supply a military wagon for the coffin, so I expect they felt a bit snubbed.
I will check out the War Diaries now they are online.

You might apply for a copy of his death certificate. Usually the details are very sparse and often add nothing to what is known already but I have seen many exceptions such as "drowned in shell hole" and if he died when things had quietened down then there may be more detail. Certainly worth a try.

I have just found a Probate entry in 1922 and it states he died on or since 30 September 1918 in a place unknown. His Administration went to his brother Albert Jesse Taylor. So that solves the problem. He didn't die in December but in the last 2 weeks of the war. Thanks everyone for your tips - I've found my answer.

Well done Hatty.