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You refer to Elizabeth as your grandfather’s first wife…….NOT as your grandmother, so she is not part of your Ancestry.

The line you need to pursue is that of your grandmother

Brother??

HOWARD, JULIUS JOSEPH mmn BROWNING
GRO Reference: 1850 M Quarter in SAINT GEORGE THE MARTYR SOUTHWARK Volume 04 Page 509


No, doesn't look like it - he's the brother of Elizabeth with mmn Browning - NOT your Elizabeth.

:
Julius Joseph Howard
in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1936
Name: Julius Joseph Howard
Gender: Male
Marriage Age: 35
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1851
Marriage Date: 25 Dec 1886
Marriage Place: Christ Church, Southwark, Southwark, England
Father:
John Howard <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Spouse:
Jane Barnham
Register Type: Parish Register


Julius J Howard
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Julius J Howard
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John Howard
Mother's Name: Caroline Howard
Gender: Male
Where born: Southwark, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Southwark St George
Ecclesiastical parish: St Jude
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability:
View image
Registration District: St George Southwark
Sub-registration District: London Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 09
Neighbors:
Household Schedule Number: 196
Piece: 1565
Folio: 257
Page Number: 38
Household Members:
Name Age
John Howard 35
Caroline Howard 32
John Howard 6
Caroline Howard 4
Julius J Howard 1
Thomas J Simcock 14



Julius J Howard
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Julius J Howard
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: 1849
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John Howard
Mother's Name: Caroline Howard
Gender: Male
Where born: Southwark, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Southwark St George
Ecclesiastical parish: St Jude
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration District: St George Southwark
Sub-registration District: London Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors:
Household Schedule Number: 151
Piece: 333
Folio: 134
Page Number: 22
Household Members:
Name Age
John Howard 44
Caroline Howard 40
Caroline Howard 14
Julius J Howard 12
Eliza Howard 9 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Sarah Howard 6


Marriage of the parents:

Marriages Jun 1843 99%)
Browning Caroline St Martin in the Fields 1 146
Howard John St Martin 1 146

I couldn't move on my Ancestry until I asked the community I did hear my Grandad Sam was Jewish but seeing everyone had gone including my dad no one yo ask .
Then Dee came along and found Samuel Rodriguese Jewish Spanish. the rest is history .I was able to fill in a lot .That's why when I have a problem I head straight to
Genes and the community.

You haven’t said why you think she was born in Southwark

??? another possibility for 1861:

Eliza Howard
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Eliza Howard
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: 1853
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Ann Howard
Gender: Female
Where born: Shoreditch, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St Botolph without Bishopsgate
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration District: East London
Sub-registration District: St Botolph
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors:
Household Schedule Number: 303
Piece: 212
Folio: 23
Page Number: 46
Household Members:
Name Age
Ann Howard 47
Eliza Howard 8
George Howard 19
Jeremiah Howard 14

So have you found the birth cert of your relation who was a brother

Thanks Shirley - I knew someone would oblige ;-) ;-)

Thomas snr’s birthplace was actually Abingdon, Berkshire

?

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census
10, Amicable Row, St George the Martyr, St George Southwark, London & Surrey, England

Thomas Howard Head Married Male 34 1827 rug weaver Abington, Surrey, England
Ann Howard Wife Married Female 31 1830 - London, Middlesex, England
Thomas Howard Son - Male 10 1851 - -
Elizabeth Howard Daughter - Female 8 1853 - -
Ann Howard Daughter - Female 5 1856 Scholar -
Catherine Howard Daughter - Female 3 1858 Scholar -
William Howard Son - Male 0 1861 - -

Everything everyone has sent is perfect I have a lot of it its just Elizabeth
side I have Thomas and Ann but not sure if these are the right parents that's
why I need confirmation the I can match her siblings :-D

I assume this is the birth you think is hers?

HOWARD, ELIZABETH mmn BROWNING
GRO Reference: 1852 M Quarter in SAINT GEORGE THE MARTYR SOUTHWARK Volume 01D Page 147

You started by saying you weren’t sure about Elizabeth’s mother - now you say you knew her name was Ann

What info do you actually have - please?

Elizabeth was born 1852 and grandad was born abt 1854
The marriage is right .Ann as her mother is her maiden name Browning.
That has also come up but not been able.to connect Ann & Browning together.

Elizabeth Rogers
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Elizabeth Rogers
Gender: Female
Age: 40
Relationship: Wife
Birth Year: 1851
Spouse: Samuel Rogers
Child: George Rogers
Isaac Rogers
Hassa Rogers
Esther Rogers
Birth Place: England <<<<<<<<<<<<<
Civil Parish: Bethnal Green
Ecclesiastical parish: St Pauls
Residence Place: Bethnal Green, London, England
Registration District: Bethnal Green
Sub registration district: Bethnal Green North
ED, Institution or Vessel: 11b
Neighbors:
Piece: 258
Folio: 139
Household Members:
Name Age
Samuel Rogers 36
Elizabeth Rogers 40
George Rogers 11
Isaac Rogers 12
Hassa Rogers 10
Esther Rogers 1


Elizabeth Rogers
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Elizabeth Rogers
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relationship to Head: Wife
Spouse: Manuel Rogers
Gender: Female
Where born: Whitechapel <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Civil Parish: Spitalfields
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 8 Bell Lane
Marital status: Married
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Registration District: Whitechapel
Sub registration district: Spitalfields
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors:
Piece: 436
Folio: 36
Page Number: 32
Household Members:
Name Age
Manuel Rogers 27
Elizabeth Rogers 30
George Rogers 4
Isaac Rogers Younger Than 1

Difficult to place

Are these their children?


Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
ROGERS, GEORGE HOWARD
GRO Reference: 1877 M Quarter in WHITECHAPEL Volume 01C Page 334

ROGERS, ISAAC HOWARD
GRO Reference: 1879 D Quarter in WHITECHAPEL Volume 01C Page 320

Just realised this is on FLR, so what are we being asked to look for?

1861 has mother Ann, brothers Thomas & William and sisters Ann & Catherine. Can’t C&P on iPad……but I know someone else will do it

EDITED

Probably NOT that family - the father is a Rug weaver

BUT….they are the only ones in Southwark………………….

Have you found them on any censuses?

Have you looked for info about her anywhere?

Presumably, you got Southwark as a possible birthplace from a post-1875 census ?

For our reference:

Samuel Rodgers
in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1936
Name: Samuel Rodgers
Gender: Male
Marriage Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1854
Marriage Date: 3 Feb 1875
Marriage Place: St Bartholomew, Bethnal Green, Tower Hamlets, England
Father: Isaac Rodgers, horse dealer
Spouse: Elizabeth Howard
Register Type: Parish Register


Elizabeth Howard
in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1936
Name: Elizabeth Howard
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: 23
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1852 <<<<<<<<<<<<<
Marriage Date: 3 Feb 1875
Marriage Place: St Bartholomew, Bethnal Green, Tower Hamlets, England
Father: Thomas Howard , labourer <<<<<<<<
Spouse: Samuel Rodgers
Register Type: Parish Register


Thomas was a carman.
Address for both was 7 Garden Place.

Presume you have the marriage cert for her age and fathers name and occupation