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Elizabeth Lititia
Last name Thornhill
Name note -
Marriage year 1865
Marriage date 05 Nov 1865
Marriage place Liverpool
Father's first name(s) Henry
Father's last name Thornhill
Spouse's first name(s) William Patrick
Spouse's last name Gillespie
Spouse's age 0
Spouse's father's first name(s) John
Spouse's father's last name Gillespie
Residence Liverpool, Lancashire, England
County Lancashire
Country England
Record set England Marriages 1538-1973

1851
Record Transcription:
1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Torbock Street, Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Henry Thornhill Head Married Male 45 1806 Labourer Ireland
Rebecca Thornhill Wife Married Female 43 1808 - London, England ---- Londonderry, Ireland
Joseph Thornhill Son Unmarried Male 18 1833 Clerk Office Liverpool, Lancashire, England
John Thornhill Son Unmarried Male 16 1835 Apprentice Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Harriet Thornhill Daughter - Female 9 1842 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
George Thornhill Daughter - Male 5 1846 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Thornhill Daughter - Female 2 1849 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Jane Thornhill Daughter - Female 12 1839 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England

yes he was a seaman, he would have serverd in ww2 i would have thought but i cant seem to find anything about that, poss in merchant navy how do you find records for that please?

Joy was only born with name joyce, but i think she may have changed name by deed poll or unoffcially taken the name lynn on, i will write a letter to the address last listed for her above, and see what happens. yes i have a tree on ancestty and have found some family but they are not in contact with each other, so any info i can find out, i know nothing at all about my grandmothers family, the thomas's and carrs, so thats been a interesting read, ill have to add the details fo my tree and see if i get any new hints, trying to find people is like a needle in haystack,

There are no online records for WW2

And seamen are routinely given their records when they leave the service, so none exist apart from any retained by the man or his descendants

no records have been kept and no one i have spoken to know my grandad he died and didnt talk, he was a mans man drink woman and work was his think oh and abusing his wife and kids, i am loving the information i am finding, i have added the people to my ancestry tree as this one wont load for some reason!!! but never mind i can sort that later, so now its just my aunts and uncles, if anyone has any info, or knows any ways of finding living people, i have been through salvation army, and my cousin who i found knows nothing like me, so i will writie to address for joyce and see what happens and of course look at the hundreds of hits ancestry has thrown at me, its a shame seaman records wernt kept for ww2, apparently my dad did a short stint in the army before being kicked out, but again when i put his details in i get nothing, it it like the cencus and i have to wait ?

You said you also wanted to know about your grandmother's family.

Returning to your grandmother's sister Gladys Eva Thomas, who is on the 1911 census I posted on page 1 -

THOMAS, GLADYS EVA mms CARR
GRO Reference: 1911 M Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 574


Gladys Eva Thomas
in the Liverpool, England, Church of England Baptisms, 1813-1917
Name: Gladys Eva Thomas
Age: 0
Birth Date: 16 Jan 1911
Baptism Date: 5 Feb 1911
Baptism Place: Liverpool, St Peter, Lancashire, England
Parish as it Appears: Liverpool, St Peter
Father: William Thomas
Mother: Mary Emily Thomas

Address: Albert Street.
Father's occupation: decorator.


Other siblings:

Births Sep 1914 (>99%)
Thomas Sarah Carr W.Derby 8b 1070

Births Jun 1918 (>99%)
Thomas Emily V Carr W. Derby 8b 898

Births Dec 1920 (>99%)
Thomas Freda B Carr W. Derby 8b 1056


Emily V with her father in 1939:

Emily V Thomas
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Emily V Thomas
[Emily V Donal]
Gender: Female
Marital status: Single
Birth Date: 16 May 1918
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 58,
Residence Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Occupation: Unpaid Domestic Duties
Schedule Number: 59
Sub Schedule Number: 2
Enumeration District: NHKR
Registration district: 453-4.
Household Members:
Name
William Thomas - painter, ship or house - 24 May 1880
Emily V Thomas

Emily V's marriage:

Marriages Sep 1945 (>99%)
Donal Charles W Thomas Liverpool S. 8b 358
Thomas Emily V Donal Liverpool S. 8b 358


Her death:

Emily Victoria Donal
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Emily Victoria Donal
Death Age: 51
Birth Date: 16 May 1918
Registration Date: Jun 1969
Registration district: Liverpool South
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10d
Page: 1295


Her husband's death:

Charles W Donal
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Charles W Donal
Death Age: 60
Birth Date: abt 1906
Registration Date: Mar 1966
Registration district: Liverpool South
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10d
Page: 584

They had four children, all born in Liverpool, in 1946, 1948, 1951, 1957.
Details on FreeBMD. I'm not posting them as they are probably still living.

The son born in 1957 married in Liverpool in 1981, and was living at an address in the Wirral until at least 2007 (per ER on Ancestry).

It looks like he had two sons, born in Birkenhead, 1991 and 1994.
The son born in 1994 was living in the Wirral at least until 2016, pre 192.com.
He may still be there and have opted out of the public ER.
He also seems to be on Facebook.

“apparently my dad did a short stint in the army before being kicked out”

Records from 1922, WW2 & afterwards, regardless of which branch of the Forces, are still with the MOD. You can apply for a copy at a cost of £30. As mentioned before, RN Records are usually given to the seaman when demobbed.
http://www.veterans-uk.info/service_records/service_records.html

This looks like your grandmother's other sister Freda B, born 1920, in 1939.
Had your grandparents separated/divorced? Looks like Mary Emily had reverted to her maiden surname, though it says she's married.

EDIT:
this Freda B's birth is the wrong year, - just a mistake.

Freda B Thomas
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Freda B Thomas
[Freda B Clark]
Gender: Female
Marital status: Single
Birth Date: 8 Oct 1921
Residence Year: 1939
Residence Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Occupation: Spotter(Dry Cleaning)
Sub Schedule Number: 3
Enumeration District: NISO
Registration district: 455/7
Household Members:
Name
This record is officially closed.
Emily Carr [ Has been amended to read Mary Emily ] 14/03/1891
Freda B Thomas
Henry Andrew - 28/05/1901 [ possibly a lodger and not a family member ]
Edward Carr - 22/10/1893, painter, married [ a relative ?].

The closed record is the first one in the household, so will be the head of the household. (FMP often is more up-to-date with the 1939 register than Ancestry, so might show the name. I don't have a FMP sub.)


Freda's marriage:

Marriages Jun 1943 (>99%)
Clark William Thomas Liverpool N. 8b 625
Thomas Freda B Clark Liverpool N 8b 625


and her death:

Freda Beatrice Clark
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Freda Beatrice Clark
Death Age: 78
Birth Date: 8 Oct 1920
Registration Date: May 1999
Registration district: Flintshire West
Inferred County: Clwyd
Register Number: 28
District and Subdistrict: 8031

fmp version
1939
Lewis Household (5 People) 19 Sheil Road , Liverpool C.B., Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule Sub Number
Freda B Clark (Thomas) 08 Oct 1921 Female Spotter(Dry Cleaning) Single 2 3
Philip D Lewis 08 Sep 1917 Male Student(Veterinary Science) Single 2 1
Emily (Mary) Carr 14 Mar 1891 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 2 2
Henry Andrew 28 May 1901 Male Shop Assistant(Bispoke Tailor) Married 2 4
Edward Carr 22 Oct 1893 Male Shop Assistant Painter Married 2 5

Thanks, Maddie.
Not the head of household after all, if the closed record on Ancestry is just a 17-yr-old student.

freda may have had 3 children born 1943, 1947 and 1949 liverpool south

KEITH T
Last name CLARK
Marriage quarter 4
Marriage year 1966
Lilian G Blacoe
Spouse's last name Blacoe
District Liverpool North
District number -

Keith Thomas
Last name Clark
Title Mr
Sex Male
Age 73
Birth year 1943
Birth date 07 Oct 1943
Death year 2016
Death date 29 Jun 2016
Place Liverpool
Area Liverpool
Geo direction North West

KEITH T
Last name CLARK
Birth year 1943
Birth quarter 4
Registration month -
Mother's maiden name Thomas
District Liverpool South
County Lancashire
Country England
Volume 8B
Page 51

Thank you all, for your help, ive added most of the info to my tree, i am stuck on the children of d donal and the marriage too i think the spouse is green?

It seems that phillis, evelyn and bernard have dropped off the face of the earth there seems to be no records for them other then the births. I will now look at the hints from ancestory to see what comes from that, again thank you all for your help its greatly appreciated and means the world to me <3 <3

Yes, the Donal children's mms was Green

The marriage and the children's births are all on Ancestry. The marriage is also on FreeBMD

Re "Phillis" - note that her name is spelled Phyllis on her birth record.

She is probably the closed record in 1939, posted by DetEcTive on page 1.
(Or maybe that's Evelyn.)


There are two possible marriages for Phyllis - one in Liverpool in 1954 to a Murray, and one in 1966 in Barton, Lancs, to a Sammons.

Again, I'm not posting details in case any are still alive, but the details are on Ancestry and FreeBMD.

i think its going to be the murray but will check out both, i have over 500 hints on ancestrey that im working through,

Re Evelyn and Bernard - there are marriages which could be for either of them, but no way to know for sure without buying copies of certs.

Or maybe they didn't marry.

They may still be alive.
There are lots of Bernard O'Neills on ERs. There's one in Wigan - but he could be living anywhere.

Whats ER please? and i am trying to rack my brains for the info i did get told about the family, i think bernard was a photographer and did marry poss a dee dee?

Wigan is not far from liverpool area i think so that could be on to something,

How many marriages are there that would fit? just wondering if its worth buying the certs

ER - Electoral Register or Electoral Roll. In essence, they're the same thing.

Since 2002 everyone has been able to opt out of the commercially available ER to preserve their privacy. Later details would still be available to search in person, either at the nearest Library/Archive or the Borough's Civic Centre.

The largest database is the pay by credits site https://www.192.com/
Findmypast have a significant number of entries but not necessarily to 2019.
There's a cross-referencing method for an educated guess to work out if the person is likely to still live at the same address. It doesn't work if the home was rented accomodation.

Dee Dee could be short for just about anything.

However, there's a marriage in Knowsley, Merseyside, in 1983, to a Doreen Dwyer.
I wonder if that could be a possibility, if your memory is correct? Her initials are DD.

That's on Ancestry.

However, I don't see them together on the Electoral Rolls, so have no idea where they might be - or even if the husband is actually your Bernard..

bernard was in mental hospital and thats where he met dee dee, it could be that she used her two names as a nickname (dee dee) it will be worth me having a better look at the above you never know, its all a jigsaw this family tree stuff, and woman getting married and losing their maiden name and re marrying makes it harder to find them