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So to summarise this is what I think happened:

Margery Murphy met a man who was a Sailor and supposedly died on HMS Hood. He was a Fry. They had a son called Michael Fry born 10 October 1930 in Lancashire. She assumed the surname Fry. Michael Fry died in 1990.

She then met the already married but separated John Dearden Boardman. probably sometime after December 1931.

JDB's estranged wife was already in a new relationship and gave birth to a son with her new partner in 1930.

JDB had a child named Anthony Boardman born 18 December 1931 living with him in 1939. Mother unknown.

Margery Fry formerly Murphy gave birth to Harry Henry James Boardman on 30 August 1935 at 17 Green Street, Ardwick. Her name on Birth cert was given as Marjorie Adelaide Boardman formerly Murphy. Father JDB.

Reginald Kenneth Boardman was born in Lancashire in 1939. Father JDB. Mother Madge Fry formerly Murphy.

Oh Gosh you have all been so busy. Thank you so much for all your help.

So please may I clarify? We think the 2 closed records in the 1939 register would be Sheila and Reginald?

Antony Boardman was in 7 Canal Buildings Westminster in 1958. John Dearden Boardman joined him in 1959 along with My FIL Harry. There was also a Charles F Boardman living with them at this address in 1959. I have no idea who he was.

I do not know if Sheila married as a Boardman. I have now applied to Manchester RO for the birth certificate of Sheila M Fry born in Manchester in 1933 in the hope that this is our missing aunt. If so we can then move forward looking for her as Sheila Fry. My husband does not remember his Aunt's married surname. All he remembers is she lived in Orpington and had a son.

I am very interested in this info:

Name Marjorie Mary Murphy
Event Type Birth
Event Date Oct - Dec 1900
Event Place Cork, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year Oct - Dec 1900
Registration District Cork
Volume Number 5

Although we have been told by a family that knew her in Manchester that she had a Cockney accent. However that could mean born in Ireland, raised in London.

Someone at this site has in their tree

Sheila Boardman 1930 Manchester

There is no matching birth. ?

The corrected DOB was correct for John.

Births Dec 1903
Boardman John Dearden Chorlton 8c 850

1 January 1900 sounds like a DOB of convenience :-)

So we know that one of the 3 officially closed records was RKB and one was Sheila? so the question is who the other one was.

Adelaide was certainly a fad name around 1900. When I searched for births with given names Mar* Adelaide, there were countless of them. But would that not have been more likely English than RC Irish?

It seems odd that Madge and Michael 1930 were listed separately as Fry, but Anthony 1931 is shown as Boardman, Harry 1935 is shown (and was registered as) Boardman (mother Murphy), and Reginald 1939 was registered as both Fry and Boardman.

Madge's son Michael has to have preceded Madge and John's relationship. Was Anthony John's son only? Whither his mother if so?

Now you mentioned a Charles F Boardman in 1958. Do you know who that is?

Sheila married as Boardman? Do you know her husband's surname?

Mght she have married Riley? If so, there are several births in Manchester.

Thanks +++DetEcTive+++.

Rose

Fry family mentioned earlier

Fry Household (2 People)
155 Upper Kingston , Ringwood and Fordingbridge R.D., Hampshire, England

FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S) DOB OCCUPATION
Reginald K Fry 31 May 1912 Cowman
Vera E Fry 30 Jun 1912 Unpaid Domestic Duties

As requested....

Boardman Household (8 People)
162 York Street , Manchester C.B., Lancashire, England

FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S) DOB OCCUPATION
John Boardman 14 Nov 1903 Plumber Unemployed married
Anthony Boardman 18 Dec 1931 At School
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Harry Boardman 30 Aug 1935 At Home
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Madge Fry 01 Jan 1900 Home Duties married
Michael Fry 10 Oct 1930 At School

John Boardman’s yob originally entered as (19)00 later altered to (19)03

Would someone post the birthdates from the 1939 register? That could help a lot.

Rose

Lainey you say

"We have found Margery Fry in the 1939 Register. She died in 1946 and is buried in Southern Cemetery in Manchester."


but surely this is her with John Boardman in the 1939 as I posted above

John Boardman 1903 Manchester C.B. Lancashire England
Anthony Boardman 1931 Manchester C.B. Lancashire England
Harry Boardman 1935 Manchester C.B. Lancashire England
>> Madge Fry 1900 Manchester C.B. Lancashire England
Michael Fry 1930 Manchester C.B. Lancashire England (the deceased son you referred to)
+ 3 closed records

(or was that what you meant?)


This is all pretty much by the bye, just that we wondered whether Reginald might go by a different surname, but it seems that he went by Boardman?

The coincidence of his name and the RK Fry in the previous generation -- and the older Mr Fry's birth and death in Hampshire -- just seemed so, well, coincidental.



familysearch does show this birth:

Name Marjorie Mary Murphy
Event Type Birth
Event Date Oct - Dec 1900
Event Place Cork, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year Oct - Dec 1900
Registration District Cork
Volume Number 5

which would fit the death you identify:

Name: Margery Fry
Death Age: 46
Birth Date: 1900
Registration Date: Dec1946
Registration district: Manchester
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10e
Page: 29

I have also tried to find records for Anthony Boardman but cannot find his birth record.

Incidentally Antony Boardman was living at 7 Canal Buildings Westminster in 1958 and was joined in the next year(1959 Register) by John Dearden Boardman, James H(Harry) and Charles F Boardman.

I did send off to the GRO for a birth cert for a Sheila Murphy born in Manchester in 1932 but the mother's name was wrong. No Father. I don't really want to order another wrong Birth certificate.

Shirley-Thank you I had forgotten people can opt to be anonymous on the electoral registers.

JoonieCloonie-Thank you. You are correct. We have the birth certificate for Reginald K Boardman born in Withington Manchester in 1939. Mother is Madge Fry formerly Murphy. Father is John Dearden Boardman. They were never married as John Dearden Boardman was already married in 1927(Stockport) to Florence Woodall. They must have split fairly soon as she had a new family first one being born in 1930. Reginald's Brother Harry(My Father in Law) now deceased, was born in Manchester in 1935. His Mother's name given on the birth certificate was Marjorie Adelaide Boardman formerly Murphy. We have found Margery Fry in the 1939 Register. She died in 1946 and is buried in Southern Cemetery in Manchester. She had a son prior to John Dearden Boardman called Michael Fry(Deceased). I can find no record of her birth or any marriages for her. She was Buried as a RC, so maybe not born in England. We are also looking for the sister Sheila. Last known to be living in Orpington Kent. I cannot find her birth either. We were hoping if we could find Reg he may know where his sister is. Harry was married to Irene Robinson formerly Parton who passed away on 18th January 2018.

Thank you all for your responses. I am so confused by this family, trying to unravel it all. So (Reginald) was registered as a Boardman at birth and his sister(Sheila) used the surname Boardman. Reginald and Harry definitely had the same parents. We are not sure about Sheila. She must have had one parent in common with them at least possibly both parents.

Harry's birth cert shows him as Harry Boardman but other records show him as James Henry Boardman. It's such a mess.

Re the 1939 marriage of Jack Boardman and Emily Murphy (if it's relevant):

Births Mar 1912 (>99%)
Murphy Emily Titterington Warrington 8c 487


Emily Boardman
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Emily Boardman
Death Age: 78
Birth Date: 17 Feb 1912
Registration Date: Apr 1990
Registration district: Warrington
Inferred County: Cheshire
Volume: 35
Page: 1048


???
Jack Boardman
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Jack Boardman
Death Age: 76
Birth Date: 18 Jul 1910
Registration Date: Oct 1986
Registration district: Warrington
Inferred County: Cheshire
Volume: 35
Page: 996




Reginald K born 1939 Manchester, as we know.

Two brothers born in Runcorn, 1942 and 1944.

No obvious sign of a sister.

1939

Boardman Household Manchester C.B., Lancashire, England

John Boardman 1903 Manchester C.B. Lancashire England
Anthony Boardman 1931 Manchester C.B. Lancashire England
Harry Boardman 1935 Manchester C.B. Lancashire England
Madge Fry 1900 Manchester C.B. Lancashire England
Michael Fry 1930 Manchester C.B. Lancashire England
+ 3 closed records

!!

So ... Fry was Madge's married name, and Murphy was her birth name??

Can't identify her or Michael in records though ... or Anthony's birth ...

and just guessing that these are the right people!

Harry liked to use a few different names. He married as James H but his burial record:

Name: Henry (Harry) James Boardman
Maiden Name:
Event Type: Burial
Event Date: 2004
Event Place: Winchester, City of Winchester, Hampshire, England
Photograph Included: Y
Birth Date: 30 Aug 1935
Death Date: 27 Aug 2004
Affiliate Record Identifier: 64475815
Cemetery: Magdalen Hill Cemetery

Rose

Oh duh! one tells one's self always to click that page number ... and I did for Harry! :-)

Even with that, there is an absence of any apparent sister's birth.

It sounds like Luckylainey's husband knew his uncle as a Boardman.
(Not to be too intrusive, but I imagine that Harry was your husband's father Luckylainey?)


This marriage a year before Reginald's birth seems a little too concidental, given that this marriage and uncle Reginald's birth are the only occurrence of the name in the records.

Marriages Sep 1938
Bailey Vera E - Fry Christchurch 2b 2321
Fry Reginald K - Bailey Christchurch 2b 2321

There are no apparent births with those surnames.

death of RKF Sr

Reginald Kenneth Fry 31 May 1912 - May 1995 Ringwood and Fordingbridge Hampshire

the only other Fry death in that reg district

Marion Peggy Fry 12 Dec 1917 - Mar 1987 Ringwood and Fordingbridge Hampshire


1939

Fry Household Ringwood and Fordingbridge R.D., Hampshire, England
Reginald K Fry 1912
Vera E Fry 1912


A couple of people have RKF Sr in their trees here.

Births Sep 1912
FRY Reginald K Britten Wimborne 5a 397

Given the coincidence and sequence of events and names, those of us accustomed to these things might have thoughts.

And it might seem likely that he used the surname Fry.

Another possibility might be Murphy.

After 1916, there were only two Reginald K Murphy births registered, but 1954-1998 there were 7 marriages in that name, two of them 1959/1964 in Lancashire.


Luckylainey are you sure what name your husband's uncle went by?

Might it be more possible to find his sister, if you tell us her name?

Reginald was also registered under the surname Fry. Could he be using that?

Rose

Is Harry's wife Irene? She is on the 2017 electoral roll.

edit

I had posted the 2018 obituary for Irene Boardman, but it gives her husband's name as Robert.

However, Harry was on the ER with an Irene Boardman 2003-2004.


Two things to note:

The 1939 register would not be updated to show a death in this millennium, I believe.

Reginald could be "private" on the electoral roll, for various reasons.

His birth was registered in 1939 in Manchester, mother Murphy.

I would guess a brother Harry 1935

Name: Harry Boardman
Death Age: 69
Birth Date: 30/08/1935
Registration Date: Aug2004
Registration district: Winchester
Inferred County: Hampshire
Register Number: B60D
District and Subdistrict: 502/1B
Entry Number: 125

but the earliest female birth with those surnames is 1954 in Bolton. Does that seem likely?

Actually that birth would almost certainly be to a 1951 marriage in Bolton, so no.


This is the only likely marriage for parents

Marriages Sep 1939
Boardman Jack Murphy Warrington 8c 436
Murphy Emily Boardman Warrington 8c 436

(the last Boardman-Murphy marriage before that was 1911)

unless Reginald's mother was previously married and married under her first married surname.

Do you know his parents' names? (your husband's grandparents?)

This could help identify their marriage and other children's births.


Might he have gone by Kenneth R rather than Reginald K?
There is a 1957 marriage in St Helens.
.......... No, that would be the person born in 1930.

It's not unusual for people to have lived together without marriage, for example if one was previously married. Divorce was expensive and relatively difficult and sometimes there were religious reasons against it.

Shirley. I didn't think he was on the rolls at all either. All I can think is he may have passed away, emigrated or possibly in a nursing home. I will have to think of another way of finding him.

Thank you for trying.

He isn't onthe electoral rolls at all

And not for 2002 in Hampshire

Don't forget too people can now opt out of the public electoral rolls