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Good morning all, my apologies on being so silent. Not to go into detail but I've been a little preoccupied with a personal issue.

I bought the probate document for Cyril. If it is the right man, I can see no mention of either child anywhere. I have found another Cyril Page death and have bought that probate document to see, just awaiting delivery. I can't afford to go mad, so have to try and stagger my spend on this. I have Grace's death certificate and will post the last know address later.

I'll get back and go over the other Page children details too.


XxxX

Faye

PAGE, CYRIL EDWARD mother GRAVES
GRO Reference: 1910 D Quarter in WOOLWICH Volume 01D Page 1148

matches the death info Shirley & malyon posted, and the Dartford general location


I would guess:

Marriages Sep 1902
Graves Florence Louisa Dover 2a 2214
Page Thomas James Dover 2a 2214


PAGE, THOMAS CHARLES ANDREW mother GRAVES
GRO Reference: 1906 S Quarter in GREENWICH Volume 01D Page 1101

PAGE, MARGARET ELIZABETH mother GRAVES
GRO Reference: 1911 D Quarter in WOOLWICH Volume 01D Page 2181

PAGE, GEORGE EDWARD mother GRAVES
GRO Reference: 1913 M Quarter in WOOLWICH Volume 01D Page 2311
- died in same quarter as birth

PAGE, ELSIE PHYLLIS mother GRAVES
GRO Reference: 1914 S Quarter in WOOLWICH Volume 01D Page 2512


The names Thomas and Florence suggested by Faye Louise stand up.


1911 in Woowich

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWR2-39V

Thomas James Page Head M 28 = 1882/3 Hoxton London, London
Florence Louise Page Wife F 28 = 1882/3 Dover, Kent
Thomas Charles Andrew Page Son M 4 Greenwich, London
Cyril Edward Page Son M 0 Woolwich, London


Ah, Faye Louise knows this.

Florence Louise Graves is in your tree. Do you know the others who have her in theirs?

Two people have Cyril Page 1910 Kent

and two people have
Thomas Page 1882 Hoxton London
Thomas Page 1881 Hoxton, Hackney, London

in their trees.

No one seems to have any of the other children children of Thomas and Florence.

There may be living children of Cyril's siblings who might have known their cousins as children, so it could be worth searching other online trees such as at Ancestry.


A bit more:

Marriages Jun 1938
Page Elsie P Turner Dartford 2a 2424
Turner Harry Page Dartford 2a 2424

There are Turner-Page births in Woolwich but they belong to another couple.
Can't spot them on the 1939 register.


Two mutually exclusive possibilities for Margaret:

Deaths Jun 1936
Page Margaret E 27 Dartford 2a 947
(but she was born in December quarter 1911 so would not yet have been 27)

Marriages Sep 1929
Page Margaret E Powell Dartford 2a 2131
Powell George H Page Dartford 2a 2131

There are Powell-Page births in Dartford. Two in the early 30s, and someone has a person in their tree born 1947 Bexleyheath who would match one of the births.

1939 register in Bexley?

Margaret E Powell 1911
George H Powell 1909
3 more people who are officially closed
... there is a Page-Page birth in Dartford 1929 that I would be pretty confident is one of those 3 children.


Probably Thomas Charles Andrew's death:

Deaths Jun 1924
Page Thomas C 17 Dartford 2a 664
(born September quarter 1906 so would not yet have been 18)


So it looks like only Cyril, Elsie and Margaret survived to adulthood.

For info, the parents' marriage reg info is transcribed incorrectly at FreeBMD

Marriages Sep 1934
Paul Maria G D Page Dartford 2a 2569
Page Cyril E Paul Dartford 2a 2369 <<

I happened to notice this so I have submitted a correction.

There is never any harm in adding a 'postem' to records at FreeBMD
https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
saying that you are looking for family members. (Be sure to leave an email address because there is no internal messaging system - best to use an anonymous online one for privacy and in case of spam, e.g. Gmail.)

You can do that for the two children's births and any related people whose family members might do searches there.

Getting Cyril's death certificate would still be a good thing. If the informant was a family member of some kind, they might have info about his children, and since his death was about 14 years ago, it could still be possible to locate them.

If you apply for one of their birth certificates it will be noted on it if an adoption took place.

Sorry for the delayed response, been quite a busy few days!

Grace's (it feels too odd calling her Maria, she was known as Grace) family all lived in Kent or thereabouts - I know all branches of the family (her parents and siblings, plus grandparents) - none of them had the children.

I would not be surprised if they were adopted but I have no idea how to find that out. The only other thing would be someone from the children's father's side could have taken them, but I know precious little about his family. My nan (Grace's youngest sister) had always said Cyril was not a good husband. There were rumours he was rough with her, made her ill but then, we all know how family rumours can be. I don't think the family got to see much of Grace. My nan never knew what happened to the children - it is a cousin of my mum who said she thought they went to Australia and mentioned the part about Sylvia being a doctor. She unfortunately is in her late 70's and isn't easy to question, we barely know her.

I sadly don't know the names of the children for certain, I'll see if I can find anything. I don't have their birth certificates. I could guess at possibilities: Sylvia Amy Florence and perhaps Michael Cyril Thomas. Amy is Grace's mother, my nan's middle name was Florence. I'd say Cyril was likely in Michael's name, after his father. Thomas I think might be in my family somewhere or could be from Cyril's side.

I've got quite a lot on the greater family but the fate of these children are the main mystery. I have a couple other things I'm trying to find on Grace's mother Amy's side but probably that would be another thread.


Faye

Faye do you know what the children's middle names are please?

I assume that this is Maria Gracie born in Scotland 1912 matching the date on the 1939 register. PAUL
MARIA GRACIE DE
F
1912
564/1 20
Greenock East

Would it be likely given the ages of the children, that if they did not stay with father, they could have been sent to their mother's family in Scotland?

If Sylvia did become a doctor, and given the Australian connection below, I had wondered whether this was an unfortunate possibiity:

http://tributes.theage.com.au/obituaries/theage-au/obituary.aspx?page=lifestory&pid=174117562
Dr. Sylvia (Page) Topos
TOPOR (Pager) Dr Sylvia
The Medical Graduates of The University of Melbourne 1962 note with sadness for sudden passing of Sylvia in Hawaii. Sylvia returned to Melbourne for all of our reunions and met with a number of colleagues on a recent visit.
- Dr Ian Rechtman
Published in The Age on Feb. 12, 2015

**However** despite the name in the title of the obituary, it seems more likely from the other notes, and other info on line, that the name was Pager, not Page. I will put this here in case anyone does the same search and comes up with the same possibility, which I think can be ruled out.


I wondered about adoption as well, but a search for marriages for "Sylvia A F" and "Michael C T" up to 1983 did not come up with any matching surnames, assuming that at the age they were when their mother died, their given names would not likely have been changed ... although their middle names might have ...
(They could have been adopted separately, but adoption might seem unlikely, given that they were aged 5 and 8 -ish when their mother died.)


I was going to say "get a copy of Cyril's death certificate" too, but Nyx beat me to it while I was off finishing up some work before I came back to post this. :-)
A child might have registered the death, and if it were Sylvia, it would give her married name, if she had married.

If it's that death buying the cert might be worth it for informant if NOK

There is also a probate record 2003 (which can be bought for £10)
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills

could the children have been adopted if mother died 1946 could Cyril have married again

is this Cyril

Cyril Edward Page
England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Collections from
Great Britain, England
Country
England
County
Surrey
Year
2003
Birth Year
1910
Event Quarter
1
District
East Surrey

This looks a good possibility date of birth is one day out


First name(s) CYRIL EDWARD
Last name PAGE
Gender Male
Birth day 19
Birth month 10
Birth year 1910
Age -
Death quarter 1
Death year 2003
District East Surrey
District number 7551F
Register number ESF7
Entry number 286
Date of registration mm/yy 0303
County Surrey
Country England
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007

I've had a look at 2 Sylvia Pages on Australia passenger records 1945 and 1952 but definitely not either of them.

Sorry - made a typo when putting on Sylvia's birth year (my fault using a phone to jump between screens).

My main problem is finding where Cyril and the children went after Maria died in 1946 ( I have ordered her death certificate).

I've contacted 2 Michael Page's so far, one already responded to say it wasn't him, nothing from the other yet but he is likely busy at the moment or not logged on. There are s few Michael Page's that have put birthplaces that don't match - would it be best to still chance sending them messages? Bearing in mind, he would be in his late 70s, chances of finding him on a site could be slim.


Thank you for what you have found so far. <3

Cyril E Page
England and Wales Marriage Registration Index, 1837-2005
Name:
Cyril E Page
Event Type:
Marriage Registration
Registration Quarter:
Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration Year:
1934
Registration District:
Dartford
County:
Kent
Event Place:
Dartford, Kent, England
Spouse Name (available after 1911):
Paul
Volume:
2A
maria g d
Page:
2569
Line Number:
40

Page Household (3 People)
17 Pleasant Row , Crayford U.D., Kent, England


Maria G Page 01 Jan 1912 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 28 2
Cyril E Page 18 Oct 1910 Male Painter & Decorator Married 28 1
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.

for reference only

Births Sep 1941 (>99%)
Page Michael C T Paul Surrey N.W. 2a 685

Births Sep 1935 (>99%)
PAGE Sylvia A F Paul Lambeth 1d 191

For ref birth reg for Sylvia is 1935.

Hello Faye

Have you tried to get in touch with Michael Page who also has a tree on this site ?

It might rule him out as the person you are looking for.

Hello, my name is Faye and I am trying to trace some cousins of my mother's. I am looking for a Michael C T Page born in 1941 approx. and his sister, Sylvia A F Page born in 1938 approx. Parents were Cyril Page and Maria Gracie Dennant Page (nee Paul). Maria (known as Grace) died in 1946 in Dartford. I do not know what happened to Cyril.

There were rumours that the children were sent to Australia but I don't know if that is true. Also a rumour that Sylvia became a doctor... Again, possibly untrue.



Kind regards,

Faye