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Happy days Richard.

Prickles. xx

Good news, Richard!

Thanks for letting us know.

Many thanks to all who contributed above. I am pleased to say that contact has been made with Pat which will eventually lead to a physical meeting. Once again thank you all

Hi again Richard

Regarding the 1966 marriage you mentioned......I am going to send you details by PM.

Also 2002----2014 Electoral Roll details.

Fingers crossed it's your Patricia.

Good luck!!

Prickles. ;o))

Re open or closed records on the 1939 register:

Open & Closed record - can you summarise this for me ?
Answer:

You can read more about closed and open records in our various blog posts here, but to summarise, if someone was born less than 100 years ago and is still alive, their record will be closed. If someone was born less than 100 years ago and died after 1991, their record will be closed. If someone was born over 100 years ago, their record will be open, likewise if someone was born less than 100 years ago but who died prior to 1991 (where a D-Code has been added to the Register.)

If there is an individual whose record should be open but isn't, you can submit evidence of death (a death certificate), and if you're a Findmypast subscriber, we'll open the record for free. If you're not a subscriber, this request will go via The National Archives, who will charge a flat fee of £25.

To request that a record be opened, go to the their household on the Register, and click the 'Open a closed record'.

If you happen upon someone whose record should be closed due to them still being alive, click 'Close an open record'.

You will find that some people who died prior to 1991 have closed records. This is down to the fact that not every death was added to the Register by the NHS. Unfortunately, this is out of our control; however, if you submit evidence of death we or The National Archives will open the record for you.

We're working on cross referencing our death records with the Register in order to open more records. In addition, we'll be running weekly updates that open the records of everyone who passes the 100 year threshold.

If you buy a household and a person in that household's record opens up after the 100 year limit, you'll be able to see that record at no additional cost.

https://tinyurl.com/y89r6muy

Thank you for your reply Richard.

I will get back on the case tomorrow,

Prickles.......;o))

Sydney and Elsie were my grandparents and lived in Wood Lane Chippenham.

Th Paticia bon in 1936 sounds as if that is the right one. Would the record be 'closed'because of the adoption?.

As to her surname I really do not know if that a the adopted name or married name or what. It was only on Sunday that this name came to my attention as it was on a photo sent to me by a cousin who was given it by Johns wife Jenny. I have been sent some info regarding a marriage of a Patricia Penson in 1966 in Trowbridge

I know that Mum was 'shipped' off into service and I think this was soon after Johns birth and he was brought up by my garandparents although there are thoughts that there was another child before him and that may have been the reason. It is possible that the child was Mary but that is pure speculation but that would tie in with her leaving and John being born nearer London where she was in service.

I think it is fantastic the amount of info you have uncovered in such a short time and cannot express enough how grateful I am

I am not sure about this......but i am posting it anyway

First of all, Louisa May Wiltshire is not with her family on the 1939 Register

Sydney Wiltshire on the 1939 Register

Wiltshire Household (7 People) 178 Wood Lane , Chippenham M.B., Wiltshire, England

Sydney Wiltshire 04 Nov 1885 Male Driller (Signal (Engineer) Married 255 1
Elsie (May) Wiltshire 10 Feb 1890 Female Charwoman Married 255 2
Sorry, this record is officially closed.
Robert Wiltshire 18 May 1924 Male Cinema Operator Single 255 4
Betty (Emily) Salter 20 May 1926 Female At School Single 255 5
Mary (Pamela) Webb (Wiltshire) 05 Mar 1930 Female At School Single 255 6
John (Peter) Wiltshire 02 Aug 1931 Male At School Single 255 7 (The name "Peter" has been crossed out and replaced with the name "John")

I came across this........


Robert Mole on the 1939 Register

Mole Household (8 People) 1 Elm Grove , Hendon M.B., Middlesex, England

Robert Mole 26 May 1905 Male Maintenance Electrician - Aircraft Factory Single 299 1
Louisa (A) Clarke 20 Dec 1896 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 299 2
Florence Clarke (Willett) 06 Feb 1919 Female Inspector Department ? Naval ? Single 299 3
Dorothy (M) Clarke (Wheeler) 11 Sep 1920 Female Bespoke Dressmaker Single 299 4
Phillip Clarke (Mole) 14 Nov 1930 Male At School Single 299 5
Mary C (Ellen) Clarke 30 Aug 1933 Female At School Single 299 6
Sorry, this record is officially closed.
****Louisa S Wiltshire 13 Jun 1911 Female Machine Operator - Canning Single 299 8*****

If you look at the image, it is not clear what the middle initial is for Louisa.

The surname "Wiltshire" is not actually written on the form.....there are "Ditto's" to indicate that whoever is above Louisa on the "Closed Record", has the surname "Wiltshire"

Could it be Louisa's daughter Patricia??.

???

Births Mar 1936 (>99%)
Wiltshire Patricia Wiltshire Willesden 3a 502

The date on the 1939 Register matches the date on Louisa's death registration....

Births Sep 1911 (>99%)
Wiltshire Louisa M Rogers Chippenham 5a 135


Louisa May Firmin in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Louisa May Firmin
Death Age: 84
Birth Date: 13 Jun 1911
Registration Date: Apr 1996
Registration district: Ashford
Inferred County: Kent
Register Number: B31B
District and Subdistrict: 5581B
Entry Number: 196



Can you please confirm Richard......Was Patricia's birth Surname Penson, or was that her adopted Surname??

The brother Peter/John you mentioned........(Who appears on the 1939 Register)

(There is not a birth registered for a Peter or John Wiltshire with MMN Rogers)

??
Births Dec 1931 (>99%)
Wiltshire John Wiltshire Lambeth 1d 312

John Wiltshire in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: John Wiltshire
Death Age: 61
Birth Date: 2 Aug 1931
Registration Date: Oct 1992
Registration district: Swindon
Inferred County: Wiltshire
Volume: 23
Page: 2356

with so many known and unknown possible names, it's a needle in a haystack.

There are a large number of Patricias with mms Wiltshire, for a start, never mind other possible mms's

There are three Patricia Wiltshires, mms Wiltshire - two born 1936, one in Willesden, and one in Gosport. The third one was born in Croydon in 1943.

To repeat Shirley's question - is Penson her birth name or her adopted name?

If it's her birth name, there are the following possibilities:

Patricia J, 1932, Solihull - mms Ledd
Patricia J. 1941, Epping - mms Pond
Patricia, 1940, Warrington - mms Parr
Patricia, 1944, Boston - mms Dickinson


But that would be too easy! I'm assuming Penson is her adopted name!

there is a patricia penson born 1944 in Lincolnshire

PricklyHolly - The info on my father has helped a bit more as up until now I could not confirm that he had gone to prison for bigamy but now I see he did so thanks for that.

We now know that Mum and Dad were never married although they were together from 1944 ish until his death in 1973. He probably had another family on the go as well as he regularly left home for months and months on end when i was a child but Mum seemed to accept this.

We have been lucky to be able to get a lot of info about him through some cousins who didnt know he existed until they moved an elderly aunt into a care home and came across a group family photo and asked who the little boy on the end was. The answer - 'Thats Uncle Jimmy - we dont talk about him' :-) :-) :-)

Thanks for the info. The Patricia Anne mentioned above is my full sister. It seems that the children my parents had shared names so it does make things confusing.

I think the Patricia in question must be at least 75 as my oldest full sister was born in December 1944. My mother also used different maiden names on birth certificates. So far I have found Wiltshire (real maiden name) Rogers and Collins and possibly Cave in the case of my half brother. It seems she was a bit of a goer!!!!

Loved her to bits though :-)

This site helped me contact my fathers children from previous marriages so I am really hoping to have the same success again.

In case this is of interest to you.......

Albert James Firmin in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Albert James Firmin
Death Age: 62
Birth Date: 19 May 1911
Registration Date: Dec 1973
Registration district: Maidstone
Inferred County: Kent
Volume: 5f
Page: 1469

Albert James Firmin was actually born James Arthur Firmin

FIRMIN, JAMES ARTHUR MMN ROSE
GRO Reference: 1911 J Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 659

He married in 1934

Marriages Mar 1934 (>99%)
Bedford Christina M Firmin Aylesbury 3a 2082
Firmin James A Bedford Aylesbury 3a 2082


James A Firmin on the 1939 Register

Household (1 Person) Hm Prison Cardiff H M Prison Cardiff , Cardiff C.B., Glamorganshire, Wales

James A Firmin I 19 May 1911 Male Motor Bus Driver Married 1 111


Christina Firmin on the 1939 Register

Firmin Household (4 People) 8 Pound Street , Aylesbury R.D., Buckinghamshire, England

Christina Firmin 29 Aug 1910 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 17 1
Sylvia (Jean) James (Firmin) 29 Apr 1934 Female At School Single 17 2
Sorry, this record is officially closed.
Reginald Firmin 24 Jun 1937 Male Under School Age Single 17 4


James Arthur Firmin in the Bexley, Kent, England, Electoral Registers, 1734-1965
Name: James Arthur Firmin and Christine Matilda Firmin
Residence Year: 1935
Address: The Lodge, Manor Place
Residence Place: Chislehurst, Kent, England
Description: Chislehurst Consistuency: Register of Electors


Christina Matilda Firmin in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Christina Matilda Firmin
Death Age: 90
Birth Date: 29 Aug 1910
Registration Date: Jun 2001
Registration district: Aylesbury Vale
Inferred County: Buckinghamshire
Register Number: A25C
District and Subdistrict: 3241A
Entry Number: 300

Hi Richard

Was your birth registered in Ashford...... MMN Wiltshire??

If so......there is a birth registered for a Patricia A (Same Surname as you) MMN Wiltshire, also in Ashford in 1949.

That would make her your full sister though?

Married a Mr Wakelyn in 1967?

If i have the correct Patrica........she appears on the 2014 ER in Ashford, Kent.

Is that her adopted name or her birth name

Looking for Patricia (Patsy) who is my half sister who was adopted out. Have information that she may possibly live in Oxford area.

She is the daughter of Louisa May Firmin (Wiltshire) (Rogers) and is 70 plus years of age.

I understand that she understandably feels rejected by the family following her attempts to meet up many years ago. My mother, God bless her, was a very hard woman emotionally and not proud of her past and I think tried to hide from it.

I think the last contact was when my Uncle Peter (John) died years ago. I later found out that he was actually my brother! This was in Chippenham I believe.

If she is out there I would dearly love to have some contact. In the past few years I have developed a fantastic relationship with my fathers off spring from bigamous marriages. It is not our fault that these things happened and think we will benefit from sharing our life experiences.

From the small bits above you can see that both my parents lived colourful lives with little regard for the consequences. I was one of the lucky ones who was raised well so obviously my views of them are tainted with love and I know that Patsy will feel rejected. But not by me. So please, please get in touch.

Thank you for reading