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I'm trying to make contact with the descendants of Robert Owen born in Bethnal Green and lived in the area of Hackney. The last occasion I met him was at the occasion of his father's passing in 1941. The family covers Ireland and India.

Joe.

Hi Joe

Was your Robert Owen married when you met him in 1941?

And......if so, do you know who he married?

I'm not certain. On the last occasion it was at my grandfathers - following his passing. Also present was my other uncle Edmund and two children, a boy and a girl. Obviously my cousins, but on reflection I'm unsure who was their father.

So would this be Robert's parents on the 1939 Register??

??

Robert Owen on the 1939 Register

Owen Household (2 People) 162 Well Street , Hackney, London, England

Robert Owen 10 May 1866 Male Uphostere Furniture Married
Alice Owen 08 Dec 1869 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married

??

Deaths Mar 1941 (>99%)
Owen Robert 74 Hackney 1b 682

Is this Robert with his parents and siblings in 1911??:

Robert Owen
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Robert Owen
Age in 1911: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1895
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: London, United Kingdom
Civil Parish: St John-at-Hackney
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 18 Tilia Road, Clarence Road, Lower Clapton N E
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: ERRAND BOY
Registration district: Hackney
Registration District Number: 11
Sub-registration district: Central Hackney
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Piece: 1079
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Owen 43
Alice Owen 40
Robert Owen 16
Edmund Owen 11
Mary May Owen 8
Elsie Ethel Owen 7
Gladys Grace Owen 4
John William Parr 23



He's single in 1919:

Robert Owen
in the British Army WWI Pension Records 1914-1920
Name: Robert Owen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: abt 1895
Birth Place: Bethnal Green, Middlesex
Age: 24
Document Year: 1919
Regimental Number: 693164
Regiment Name: Labour Corps
Form Title: Short Service Attestation
Number of Images: 18
Family Members:
Name Relation to Soldier
Robert Owen Self (Head)
Robert Owen Father

Address: 162 Well Street. (Same as his parents in 1939 - see PH's post above)



The same man in 1915

Robert Owen
in the British Army WWI Pension Records 1914-1920
Name: Robert Owen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: abt 1895
Age: 20
Document Year: 1915
Residence Place: 162 Well St Hackney
Regimental Number: 4285
Regiment Name: 10th County of London Regiment Battalion
Form Title: Short Service Attestation
Number of Images: 4
Family Members:
Name Relation to Soldier
Robert Owen Self (Head)
Robert Owen Father

A long shot - just because it's in Hackney. No idea if it's him or not:


EDIT: NO IT'S NOT HIM. SEE NEXT POST.


????

Marriages Mar 1925 (>99%)
Floyd Daisy F Owen Hackney 1b 511
Owen Robert Floyd Hackney 1b 511


FreeBMD shows two Owen/Floyd births in Hackney - 1925 and 1927.

Robert and Daisy F Owen, at 10 Edward Friend House, Brodia Road:

Daisy F Owen
in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Name: Daisy F Owen
Year: 1961
County or Borough: Hackney
Ward or Division/Constituency: Stoke Newington and Hackney North
Street address: 10 Chesholm Road
Reference Number: LCC/PER/B/2789

BUT I repeat, I have no idea if this is the right Robert or not>

EDIT: NO IT'S NOT - SEE END OF THIS POST


Daisy F Owen
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Daisy F Owen
Birth Date: abt 1905
Date of Registration: Dec 1967
Age at Death: 62
Registration district: Stoke Newington
Inferred County: London
Volume: 5e
Page: 188




EDIT:

NO, forget that couple - wrong Robert: (but I'll leave the info for elimination purposes)

1939 Register Transcription (Preview)
Owen Household Stoke Newington, London, England
First name(s) Last name(s) Birth year
Robert Owen 1903 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Daisy F Owen and 1 more person are on this record

Robert Owen in the London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Name: Robert Owen
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 14 Apr 1895
Born: Feb 25th
Father's name: Robert Owen....Upholsterer...22 Pedley Street
Mother's name: Alice Owen
Parish or Poor Law Union: Bethnal Green St Matthias
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers

Here is Edmund on the 1939 Register

Edmund Owen on the 1939 Register

Edmund Owen 25 ? 1900 Male Furniture Salesman Married
Thomas J Kirk ? ? 1875 Male House Porter Married 230 2

Written in pencil is....D D H 10.5.49.....(I don't know what that means!)

He married in 1929

Marriages Mar 1929 (>99%)
Collyer Evelyn R Owen Lambeth 1d 408
Owen Edmund Collyer Lambeth 1d 408

2 children......

Births Sep 1930 (>99%)
Owen Evelyn P Collyer Wandsworth 1d 804

Births Jun 1940 (>99%)
Owen Edmund B Collyer Edmonton 3a 1716


Edmund Owen in the UK, Outward Passenger Lists, 1890-1960
Name: Edmund Owen
Gender: Male
Age: 52
Birth Date: abt 1900
Departure Date: 1 Apr 1952
Port of Departure: Southampton, England
Destination Port: New York, USA
Ship Name: Queen Elizabeth
Shipping line: Cunard Steam Ship Company, Limited
Official Number: 166290
Master: G E Cove

Edmund Owen 52 Salesman Norwood London SE 27
Evelyn Owen 40 Housewife
Edmund Owen 11 Scholar


Evelyn Edmund Owen(Edmund on the image) in the UK, Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
Name: Evelyn Edmund Owen
Birth Date: 25 Feb 1900
Age: 54
Port of Departure: New York, New York, United States
Arrival Date: 16 Feb 1955
Port of Arrival: Southampton, England
Ship Name: Queen Mary
Shipping line: Cunard Steamship Company Ltd
Official Number: 7602/01

Edmund Owen Salesman Norwood London SE 27
Evelyn Rose Owen 23/08/1911
Edmund Brian Owen 01/04/40

I dont have access to this record.......but it seems he died in Virginia


Virginia, Death Records, 1912-2014
Birth, Marriage & Death, including Parish

Name: Edmund Owen
Spouse: Evelyn R Owen
Father: Robert Owen

Evelyn R Owen on the 1939 Register

Staines Household (3 People) 1 St Peters Road , Braintree R.D., Essex, England

Evelyn R Owen 23 Aug 1910 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married
Leonard A Staines 09 Sep 1911 Male Seed Expert & Shop Assistant Married
Phyllis O Staines 02 Nov 1914 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married

According to a tree on Ancestry, Edmond Brian Owen died 6 JAN 2011 • Richmond, Henrico, Virginia.


U.S., Social Security Death Index, 1935-2014
Birth, Marriage & Death, including Parish
Name: Edmund B. Owen
Birth: date
Death: dd mm 2011 - city, Henrico, Virginia
Civil: Virginia

I don't have access to view this record


Ohio, Deaths, 1908-1932, 1938-2007
Birth, Marriage & Death, including Parish
Name: Evelyn Rose Owen
Birth: date - Brown, Ohio, United States
Death: dd mm 1994 - city, Hamilton

Edmund's death record, which PH can't open:

Edmund Owen
in the Virginia, Death Records, 1912-2014
Name: Edmund Owen
Gender: Male
Race: White
Age at Death: 61
Birth Date: 25 Feb 1900
Death Date: 8 Oct 1961
Death Place: Williamsburg, Virginia, USA (Eastern State Hospital)
Registration Date: 16 Oct 1961
Father: Robert Owen
Mother: Alice
Spouse: Evelyn R Owen

Occupation: furniture salesman
Address: 9105 Huron Avenue
Cause of death: Bronchopneumonia, caused by neoplasm of lung

This matches Robert's date of birth.......

Robert Owen on the 1939 Register

Owen Household (2 People) 113 Copenhagen Street , Islington, London, England

Robert Owen 25 Feb 1895 Male Mentee Presser Married
(One Closed Record)
Helen Owen 24 Aug 1887 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married

Occupation possibly.....Mantle Dresser/Presser

The births of both Robert and Edmund are registered surprisingly late for February births. (And were they really both born on 25th Feb ? )

Births Jun 1895 (>99%)
Owen Robert Bethnal Green 1c 184


Births Jun 1900 (>99%)
Owen Edmund Croydon 2a 229


However, to go back to the original query - there's no obvious sign of Robert having married and therefore having descendants.

Thank you PH and ArgyllGran for all the information, it has made me think very hard about that meeting at 162. Uncle Ted - Edmund -had two children, Evelyn Pamela, named after her mlother, referred to in the family as 'Pam' b 1930 and Edmund Brian, after his father, b 1940.
The girl could have been ' Pam 'the boy - whose age I would estimate between 6and 8 years, obviously not Uncle Ted's son. The only conclusion I can come to is he was with Robert. That set me on the trail of his marriage - not an easy task as you have discovered.
I also recall being in the presence of my aunt's when Robert's name was mentioned, there were the knowing glances coupled with a sharp intake of breath - end of conversation !
I located a record of death at St, Leonards Hospital
Serial number: 337
Date of death: 5.12.66
Surname: Owen
Christian names: Robert
Case paper number: 21264
Age: 71
Sex: M
Certified cause of death: Bronchopneumonia, Long cardiac failure
If post mortem held: PM
Remarks: [death register number] D8071


The hospital's admission register (SBHL/MR/6/3) confirms these details, and provides some further information as follows:

Registration number: 37185
Date of admission: 10.11.66
Date of discharge: Died 5.12.66
Religion: CoE
Surname: Owen
Christian names: Robert
Address: 14 Council Dwellings, Nile Street, East Road N1
Age: 71
Civil State: M[arried]
Ward: B. Jonson
Consultant: Dr Cattell
Diagnosis: Bronchopneumonia, Congestive Cardiac Failure
Admitted from: EBS
Result: Died

Unfortunately there is no record of the next of kin. Robert's age is correct with his D.O.B. I discovered Robert was buried in a common grave at St, Pancras and Islington cemetery December 1966. I made contact with the Islington Registrar they are not involved in such matters. I made a series of phone calls to the local funeral directors. Owing to the take over of some businesses and on occasions details made on beer mats- I assure you this is what I was told.
Robert's death certificate records his address as 14, Council Dwellings Nile, St N1. The electoral roll records a Robert Owen as the sole occupant. His occupation, prior to retirement, was a postman, thinking he may have been in receipt of a pension that may have revealed the name of hiss wife I made a 'phone call to the PO records Office - no records available. Name of the informant is R Owen widow of the deceased at the same address. I have failed to find a marriage certificate confirming the marriage.

My head is resting against a brick wall, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for all your help.
Joe.

Edit: the Electoral Roll was published in 1964.

Hi Joe

I have replied to your PM.

I will take another look tomorrow and get back to you if i find anything of interest.

Prickles. ;o))

Edit: I did take another good look Joe........but didn't find anything of interest. It's a shame the record to the other person on the 1939 register is closed. Probably a big clue there!