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I did not mention my father's name of Sidney. who is one of 10 children parents James and Maria Payne [nee Burn] He was born 7-1-1911 in Clarks yard Baldock and died 23-8-1988 in Didcot Community Hospital. He married Florence Clarke in 1936 in Bury St Edmunds and I was born 29-12-1936 in Bury St Edmunds and I have 2 sisters Dapne born 1942 and Angela born 1948. Regards Bob Payne

Thank you all for filling in a lot of missing information about my James Payne family, especially Greyghost. I think I have information for you, My son Christopher born 1969 may be the last of this Payne tree although he is a father, his ex-partner has used her surname for the daughter and even if she had the surname Payne, when married it would have gone any way, My 2 sisters have also married and are no longer Payne. Thanks once again Bob Payne

Unless the Father of a child was at the registration and admitted paternity, the Child was presumed to be that of the Mother's husband whether deceased or not !!

Looking at the children from that 1881, I believe these are their baptisms -

Louisa - image shows Abode as Baldock and Father a Blacksmith.

So Louisa probably child of George and maybe the reason for the marriage.

First name(s) Louisa
Last name Pain
Birth year -
Baptism year 1866
Baptism date 07 Oct 1866
Place Baldock
Father's first name(s) George
Mother's first names(s) Elizabeth
Country England
Record set Hertfordshire Baptisms

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Lizzie Jane - image shows Mother only who is said to be a Spinster. Abode Norton

First name(s) Lizzie Jane
Last name Payne
Birth year -
Baptism year 1871
Baptism date 01 Oct 1871
Place Baldock
Father's first name(s) -
Mother's first names(s) Elizabeth
Country England
Record set Hertfordshire Baptisms

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James - image shows Mother only, Abode Willan - ( part of this parish was annexed to Baldock) (Wikipedia). NOTE - middle name

Middle name often given as a pointer to the name of the Father. So maybe James is the end of the Payne line for your research??

First name(s) James Dearman
Last name Payne
Birth year -
Baptism year 1876
Baptism date 07 May 1876
Place Baldock
Father's first name(s) -
Mother's first names(s) Elizabeth
Country England

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Albert - image shows Mother Elizabeth but with what could be a James crossed out.

So maybe the vicar thought James to be Elizabeth's husband and was corrected !

Abode - Willan parish

First name(s) Albert
Last name Payne
Birth year -
Baptism year 1878
Baptism date 13 Jan 1878
Place Baldock
Father's first name(s) -
Mother's first names(s) Elizabeth
Country England
Record set Hertfordshire Baptisms

-----------------------
AND
When Lizzie Jane marries in 1899, she name her Father as James Payne

Hertfordshire Marriages Transcription

First name(s) Lizzie Jane
Last name Payne
Birth year 1870
Marriage year 1889
Marriage date 25 Nov 1889
Place Baldock
Groom's first name(s) James
Groom's last name Castle
Groom's age 26
Bride's first name(s) Lizzie Jane
Bride's last name Payne
Bride's age 19
Groom's father's first name(s) Jacob
Groom's father's last name Castle
Bride's father's first name(s) James
Bride's father's last name Payne

The 1881 census I posted (if the correct family) shows children Louisa, Lizzie, James and Albert. Elizabeth is stated to be a Widow.

There is also a lodger called James Dearman.

Hertfordshire marriages - There is a marriage for George Payne to Elizabeth Currell 1866 in Norton. His Father listed as James, hers as Robert.

England Marriages 1538-1973 Transcription

First name(s) George
Last name Payne
Name note -
Age 28
Marriage year 1866
Marriage date 11 Mar 1866
Marriage place Norton
Father's first name(s) James
Father's last name Payne
Spouse's first name(s) Elizabeth
Spouse's last name Currell
Spouse's birth year 1842
Spouse's birth date 1842
Spouse's father's first name(s) Robert
Spouse's father's last name Currell
Residence Norton, Hertfordshire, England

Unless you already have it, you need the birth certificate of the eldest child Louisa to confirm her mother's maiden name and occupation of Father.

Thank you all for your information which has added to what I already hold, However there appears to be 2 separate James Payne families in Baldock, one with James being born in 1871 and my g.father born in 1874. I have ny gt, g/father as George Payne b.11-3-1837 in Norton who married Elizabeth Currell b. 1841 in Norton on 11-3-1865 in Ashwell/Norton. Is anybody able to confirm this please? If so the line goes further back to James Pain C1796 Preston Herts who married Elizabeth Clark b. 1805 Shillington Beds. died 1890. I have seen her gravestone in St mary's Churchyard Baldock. He died in 1866 Baldock? and they had 6 children. Can anybody confirm this as well? Thanks Bob Payne

Welcome to the boards Robert - as you are looking for ancestors you would have been better posting this on the Find Ancestors board.

Is this 'your' James ??

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
1, Norton End, Baldock, Hitchin, Hertfordshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Elizabeth Payne Head Widow Female 38 1843 Ag Lab Widow Norton, Hertfordshire, England
Louisa Payne Daughter Single Female 14 1867 Scholar Norton, Hertfordshire, England
Lizzie Payne Daughter Single Female 9 1872 Scholar Norton, Hertfordshire, England
James Payne Son Single Male 6 1875 Scholar Norton, Hertfordshire, England
Albert Payne Son Single Male 3 1878 Scholar Norton, Hertfordshire, England
James Dearman Boarder Single Male 39 1842 Ag Lab Sandon, Hertfordshire, England

not seeing any census for a james born in 1874

Name James Payne
Event Type Census
Event Date 1881
Event Place Baldock, Hertfordshire, England
Registration District Hitchin
Residence Note Norton St
Gender Male
Age 10
Marital Status (Original) Single
Occupation Scholar
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Birth Year (Estimated) 1871
Birthplace Baldock, Hertfordshire, England
Page Number 2
Registration Number RG11
Piece/Folio 1416/37
Affiliate Record Type Household



Household

Role

Gender

Age

Birthplace

Thomas Payne Head M 46 Baldock, Hertfordshire, England
Martha Payne Wife F 38 Rushden, Hertfordshire, England
Elizabeth Payne Daughter F 11 Baldock, Hertfordshire, England
James Payne Son M 10 Baldock, Hertfordshire, England
William Payne Son M 8 Baldock, Hertfordshire, England
Florence Payne Daughter F 6 Baldock, Hertfordshire, England
Tom Payne Son M 3 Baldock, Hertfordshire, England
George B Payne Son M 0 Baldock, Hertfordshire, England

My g/father James Payne [1874-1947] Hitchin Reg Dis has been confused with another James Payne born 1871 Hitchin Reg Dis who was a orofessional groundsman in Lancashire and in fact played just one match for Lancashire. His brother whose name escapes me, was also a professional groundsman in Oswestry and also may have played cricket to a high standard. I am wondering if there is any connection between the 2 famillies. Can anybody help please.
Bob Payne