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thanks all my past family came from Ivinghoe and Ivinghoe Aston before that there were in Wing I am back to 1670 I.ve moved house as soon as i find photo will post it on here many thanks for your help.

Is this Leonard's birth?

Births Jun 1883 (>99%)
SAUNDERS Leonard Francis T Berkhampstead 3a 556

But if so, this looks like him in 1891 - not Alfred & Mary's son:

Leonard Saunders
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Leonard Saunders
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1883
Relation: Son
Father's name: Job Saunders
Mother's name: Eliza Saunders
Gender: Male
Where born: Northchurch, Hertfordshire, England
Civil Parish: Northchurch
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Northchurch
County/Island: Hertfordshire
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: Berkhampstead
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1126
Folio: 51
Page Number: 19
Household Members:
Name Age
Job Saunders 42
Eliza Saunders 38
Maud Saunders 12
Leonard Saunders 8
John Saunders 5


There's no Leonard on any of the censuses with Alfred & Mary, and no sign of him having perhaps died in infancy.

Unfortunately the 1911 for Mary says Mary had 2 children, which is a mistake - she must have been thinking of the two children still living with her at that time.

Lance if you could upload the photo to keepsafe, and open it to view, do you think it's likely someone on here might be able to judge the date from the quality of the image?

Alternatively, have you accounted for the other siblings, whether possibly Thomas was visiting with relatives in Aus' rather than having emigrated there himself? I'm not seeing Leonard at all?

Ref photo was being pulled by a horse not a tractor.

It certainly doesn't look as if they died in Australia in the 1930's, unless the Thomas and Lydia we have found dying much later in UK are by some wild coincidence just another couple born in the same years as your relatives, with the same names, including Lydia's maiden name, and also living in Berkhamsted area.

Can you guess at a date for the photo at all?

I've looked here dates between 1925 to 1950 but nothing there,

http://ryersonindex.net/search.php

Hi, Jan might have been a nickname. Also i was told that they went to Australia in the late 1920s had a farm sold it and were moving to another but were killed in floods in the early 1930s this was told to me by my father. I know that Thomas was well travelled as we had post cards from all over the world, but they have disappeared. also no boys are not in picture.

"love Jan and boys" - on the photo.

So the photo is only of Tom, not boys as well?

I would assume the boys were Jan's children, and not necessarily anything to do with Tom.
Who's Jan? Obviously not Tom's wife (if he's the Tom married to Lydia).

Is it possible to guess at a date for the photo at all?

Re the Edmonton Saunders / Bedford couple, RR - yes, I assumed they were the parents of the Edmonton children , although I couldn't see them definitively in 1911.

just for ref
1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
39, Highfield Road, Berkhamsted, Great Berkhampstead Urban, Berkhampstead, Hertfordshire, England


Alfred Saunders Head Married Male 51 1850 Labourer On Farm Ivinghoe Aston, Buckinghamshire, England Transcription
Mary Saunders Wife Married Female 50 1851 - Ivinghoe Aston, Buckinghamshire, England Transcription
Thomas Saunders Son Single Male 19 1882 General Labourer Ivinghoe Aston, Buckinghamshire, England
Andrew Saunders Son - Male 13 1888 Errand Boy Northchurch, Hertfordshire, England
Matilda Saunders Daughter - Female 12 1889 - Northchurch, Hertfordshire, England
Mary Saunders Daughter - Female 4 1897 - Paddington, Middlesex, England

1891

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1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Highfield Road, Berkhampstead, Hertfordshire, England


Alfred Sanders Head Married Male 41 1850 Carman Aston, Buckinghamshire, England
Mary A Sanders Wife Married Female 40 1851 - Aston, Buckinghamshire, England
Lewis Sanders Son - Male 15 1876 Chemical Laborer Aston, Buckinghamshire, England
Thomas Sanders Son - Male 9 1882 Scholar Aston, Buckinghamshire, England
Andrew Sanders Son Single Male 3 1888 Scholar Northchurch, Hertfordshire, England
Matilda Sanders Daughter Single Female 2 1889 - Northchurch, Hertfordshire, England

Hi no did not know him personally his brother was my Grandfather Andrew Saunders, i do have a lot of old family photos. I did get the marriage certificate so names are right also been in touch with other tree members of the Bedford name. which was here maiden name. On the photo i have it says Tom in the Garden love Jan and boys. it is set in Australia as lot's of gum trees. But only the back view as he was using a plough.

Thomas's father was Alfred Saunders Mother was Mary Ann Capell
Brother and sisters were Lewis,Amy, Leonard, Andrew,Matilda and May Saunders Most were born in Ivinghoe, My Grand father and Matilda were born at Bottom Farm Northchurch. May was born in Paddington, London. Thanks for the help.

Just looking at Lydia Bedford to see if she had a brother Tom in case it was on that side of the family but appears not

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Potten End, Berkhampstead, Hertfordshire, England


Abram Bedford Head Married Male 35 1856 Nursery Labourer Potten End, Hertfordshire, England Transcription
Lilly Bedford Wife Married Female 30 1861 - Potten End, Hertfordshire, England

Edith Bedford Daughter - Female 10 1881 Scholar Potten End, Hertfordshire, England

Minnie Bedford Daughter - Female 8 1883 Scholar Potten End, Hertfordshire, England
George Bedford Son - Male 6 1885 Scholar Potten End, Hertfordshire, England
Lydia Bedford Daughter - Female 4 1887 Scholar Potten End, Hertfordshire, England
Florence Bedford Daughter - Female 1 1890 - Potten End, Hertfordshire, England

Thanks for the Help will look into all this,

I looked at those Edmonton births last night and assumed they may be connected to this marriage though?

Marriages Jun 1910 (>99%)
BEDFORD Annie Elizabeth Edmonton 3a 947
Saunders Bertie Thomas Edmonton 3a 947

To recap:
Thomas and Lydia were in Berkhamsted or area in 1911, 1939, and when they died.

If you are correct in saying that he had a sweet shop before going to Australia, and as the 1939 register says he was a retired confectioner then, they must have gone to Australia (if they did) and back again, between 1911 and 1939.

If they flew, or travelled overland, there will be no travel record for us to find.

We certainly can't find any record of that, nor are they on Australian ER's during that period.

If they had children in England, and assuming they lived in Hertfordshire until emigrating, there are several Saunders / Bedford births 1908 - 28, but not Berkhamsted. Three boys and three girls, all born Edmonton reg district, which takes in part of Hertfordshire.

If he was your uncle, did you know him personally, Lance?
I mean, do you recognise him in the photo as your uncle?
What exactly does it say on the photo?

Are you sure he was married to Lydia, or has that come from your own research on genealogy websites?

The fact that he ran a sweet shop is certainly interesting.

Lance, that can't be the same couple then so perhaps if you want to post who Tom was related to, father siblings etc we might be able to check.

That couple Saunders/Bedford didn't have children in this country at least from freebmd, and you would expect to be able to find them travelling, given the age of Thomas and Lydia.

PS does it say Tom Saunders on the photo, or just "uncle Tom"? Could it be an uncle on the other side of the family?

I have a picture of my Uncle Tom Plowing a field in Australia and it says and boys on the picture. Also there are gum trees in the picture. but might be them as he did own a sweet shop in Birkhampsted before they left

All i know is they had boy's whether two or three i do not know